The Mixed Fermentation Thread

[Ajhutch]

I’d agree with all of Zephyr’s comments. You can always add a suitable dry hop after fermentation.

 

[BeerCat]

I am going to do another sour wheat with kveik voss and sourpitch. Should i add the sourpitch first then the yeast? Will it continue to sour after fermentation? If i reuse the yeast will it be a lacto yeast?

Last time i added lacto first it turned into a stinking mess. Could this be due to too much oxygen present in the wort?

 

[stz]

I am going to do another sour wheat with kveik voss and sourpitch. Should i add the sourpitch first then the yeast? Will it continue to sour after fermentation? If i reuse the yeast will it be a lacto yeast?

Last time i added lacto first it turned into a stinking mess. Could this be due to too much oxygen present in the wort?

I've a similar thing in FV at the minute. I was going to add the lacto culture first, followed by the kviek a day or two later, followed by a hop tea to halt/slow the lactic maybe on day three or four. I decided to pitch the lactic and the kviek together in the end. Reason being is I usually get good souring after three days and I want this to be sour, but not as sour as some of my other sour beers and I'm hoping pitching together will moderate it somewhat.

Yes it'll continue to sour after fermentation, but dependent on temperature, size of lacto pitch and hopping. Yes the yeast will contain lacto and will no longer be clean. I made a starter and reserved some starter to keep the kviek clean.

Stinking mess? Oh dear. Usual tips to prevent this, 'clean' wort (boiled to sanitise), absence of oxygen (boiled to drive it off, no splashing when collecting, purged vessel, airtight vessel) and pre souring the wort so it is already out of the danger zone for enteric bacteria (already dropped to a pH of 4.5). That and you want to get the sour done quick at a decent temperature. If it takes too long, greater chance of something else developing in there. If it is at a lower temperature other things can gain a foothold. A large enough lactic culture, temperatures depending on culture of 36-44C. Should get a nice quick drop which reduces the umm... danger window?

 

[JFB]

Racked my Flanders red ale on to oak rum barrel chunks.
Then put her to bed in the guest room..

 

[Leon103]

They look great. Where did you get them from.

 

[BeerCat]

I've a similar thing in FV at the minute. I was going to add the lacto culture first, followed by the kviek a day or two later, followed by a hop tea to halt/slow the lactic maybe on day three or four. I decided to pitch the lactic and the kviek together in the end. Reason being is I usually get good souring after three days and I want this to be sour, but not as sour as some of my other sour beers and I'm hoping pitching together will moderate it somewhat.

Yes it'll continue to sour after fermentation, but dependent on temperature, size of lacto pitch and hopping. Yes the yeast will contain lacto and will no longer be clean. I made a starter and reserved some starter to keep the kviek clean.

Stinking mess? Oh dear. Usual tips to prevent this, 'clean' wort (boiled to sanitise), absence of oxygen (boiled to drive it off, no splashing when collecting, purged vessel, airtight vessel) and pre souring the wort so it is already out of the danger zone for enteric bacteria (already dropped to a pH of 4.5). That and you want to get the sour done quick at a decent temperature. If it takes too long, greater chance of something else developing in there. If it is at a lower temperature other things can gain a foothold. A large enough lactic culture, temperatures depending on culture of 36-44C. Should get a nice quick drop which reduces the umm... danger window?

I forgot to lower the ph before adding the lacto! Brilliant i knew there was something i did not do. At least i know now. Any idea how much lactic acid i would need to lower say 20l of wort from 5.5 to 4.5? The instructions have come of the pack and i don't have a ph meter.

 

[JFB]

They look great. Where did you get them from.

Malt miller, think I had the last pack. They smell great, not quite as strong as I expected but very nice.

 

[Leon103]

Malt miller, think I had the last pack. They smell great, not quite as strong as I expected but very nice.

How big are they. The picture make a them looks massive

 

[JFB]

How big are they. The picture make a them looks massive

The foil pack there sat on is a tad smaller than A4. They originaly had whisky, rum and I think brandy chunks. Wish I had bought more when they first came in stock.

 

[stz]

I forgot to lower the ph before adding the lacto! Brilliant i knew there was something i did not do. At least i know now. Any idea how much lactic acid i would need to lower say 20l of wort from 5.5 to 4.5? The instructions have come of the pack and i don't have a ph meter.

This is a real how long is a piece of string question. When it comes to using acids in the brewery there is no substitute for a decent meter, but they are expensive, require calibration, correct storage, maintenance and eventual replacement. Because this works out quite expensive home brew forums seem to be filled with people trying to give themselves an aneurysm calculating out mEq for every possible situation just to avoid buying one. I'd advise avoiding it and accepting a rule of thumb/good enough kind of thing, if it has to be accurate get a meter. If you are prepared to work with universal indication solution or paper, it is a slight improvement. What tends to happen is you add acid and the shift is gradual/stubborn until anything buffering the acid is exhausted, then it drops off a cliff. Past this point small amounts have a large impact. From experience a level teaspoon of 88% lactic will get me 4.x in 25L and that is often good enough!

I treat hot liquor as well and for me 50L needs something like 4.7ml to reduce rA from 110ppm to 30ppm. 7.7ml is enough to remove it entirely and bring the water below 4.4. I've been using a teaspoon at home for years without ill effect.

 

[strange-steve]

Thanks for the link, I took a punt on one of these so I'll report back when it arrives

Well I picked this up at the post office today and overall I'm pretty pleased with it. I have a couple of brews at the top of my list and then it'll be a flanders red going into this.

 

[BeerCat]

Looks decent enough Steve. They do a 50l one for a tenner more but i thought it would end up cracking when i cold crash.
Are you planning on using roselare for your flanders?

 

[Sadfield]

Looks great. Wouldn't trust myself with one though.

 

[Hoddy]

Well I picked this up at the post office today and overall I'm pretty pleased with it. I have a couple of brews at the top of my list and then it'll be a flanders red going into this.

So where did you source these Steve?

 

[strange-steve]

So where did you source these Steve?

@BeerCat posted an eBay link for it, though I went for the 20L version. Not too bad for £26 inc postage.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=283062307807

 

[strange-steve]

Are you planning on using roselare for your flanders?

Yeah I reckon so, probably just gonna follow the recipe from BCS.

 

[Ajhutch]

I’ve had a busy evening tonight with my red sour. As I mentioned, I have a DJ which is 1 litre of red grape juice and the rest the beer. It’s pleasant and certainly has some wine like character to it but lacking much grape flavour. I had a tub of this grape powder which I’ve used in some wines, so I decided to make a highly concentrated solution and mix it into the beer. The powder has minimal to no sugar but I’ll let it ride for a little while just to see if it does anything odd and starts fermenting again.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=282118668001

I wanted to free up the Better Bottle that the rest of the red is in so I racked that into two of the 5L wide mouth glass DJs that GEB sell. One of those I’ve left straight and the other is racked onto 125g of Zante currants (dried miniature grapes)

I’m preparing to make another pale sour soon as it’s about a year since my extract one was started. This will eventually be a blending project of three different beers, as the traditional Geuze makers do. (I don’t really feel I can call them lambics as I’m not using any lambic techniques but you get the idea!) This year I’m going to do an all grain batch, working up the recipe now but I guess it’ll be pretty simple.

Inspired by @strange-steve doing a saison blended with white wine (https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/saison-flavoured-with-white-wine.79299/) I’ve also been thinking about blending sour beer with a couple of different homemade wines I have. I made a rhubarb wine and a cranberry wine last year which are both quite nice and dry but also have a tartness to them which should blend nicely with sour/funky beer. The cranberry one in particular really shows off the fruit. Something to think about as stocks get higher.

 

[BeerCat]

Yeah I reckon so, probably just gonna follow the recipe from BCS.

Direct pitch it it then Steve.

 

[strange-steve]

Direct pitch it it then Steve.

You mean without a starter?

 

[BeerCat]

You mean without a starter?

No i meant without adding any other yeast first.