Yeast floculation and choice of yeast

[gmc]

Hi all,

I am currently on my 4/5th batch of home brew. I am brewing from kits with the yeast provided but I have decided that my next progression in brewing is going to be learning more about yeast strains and choosing my own while still brewing from kits.

My main problem so far is that I am finding that some of my beers are tasting too yeasty. It is varying a bit from bottle to bottle, even among the same brew. Long periods of chilling before consumption is helping but not solving the issue. My most recent batch has been bottled for 3 weeks and I can visibly see bits of yeast on the surface, as well as some yeast on the inner walls of the bottle, and a big disk of yeast on the bottom along with some less dense yeast at the disk. I was very careful to leave more beer in the bottom of the primary fermenter than previous brews to try to leave more yeast behind, but this does not appear to have helped. I am brewing in the primary, then going to a bottling bucket before bottle conditioning. Primary and bottle conditioning for a minimum of 3 weeks.

I am looking for basic newby oriented advice on what yeasts strains I should be looking at for general purpose, but with the aim to improve floculation rate and reduce the total amount of yeast making it into the bottles and ultimately the beer.

My next batch will be a Festival Pilgrims Hope kit which is a 5% British ale, but in general, I brew UK and US style ales of most styles.

Is there a yeast strain that can cover most of these styles whilst floculating at a high rate?

Thanks for any help you can provide

 

[terrym]

Try a Nottingham type say GV12. Wilko Ale yeast is rumoured to be same.
CML Midland yeast is very similar.

 

[An Ankoù]

My most recent batch has been bottled for 3 weeks and I can visibly see bits of yeast on the surface, as well as some yeast on the inner walls of the bottle, and a big disk of yeast on the bottom along with some less dense yeast at the disk.

It sounds as if you're bottling far to early- not necessarily from the hydrometer's point of view, rather from the "brightness" of your beer. You shouldn't have any bits on the surface or inner walls and anything on the bottom should be just discernible. Moreover, your beer shouldn't taste yeasty.
It may be that your problems are linked to the warm temperature we've been having. If that's the case use a kveik, but normally your beer should be pretty clear before you bottle it.
It would help if you described the whole process.

 

[Hanglow]

I'll second the suggestion of notty, it will ferment out a typical ale and drop pretty clear within 5 days from pitching it. Your bottled beer should be carbed and crystal clear within a couple of weeks, no need for finings with it.

 

[jMac]

Another vote for Nottingham purely for its availability (I’m sure it’s not just rumoured, but was confirmed by Wilko’s that their Gervin yeast was Notty) as a great all-round yeast. It’s a fantastic high floccing yeast for neutral, dry styles. Personally however, I find it finishes a little too dry for traditional British malt forward styles, so have recently been using MJ’s Empire Ale Yeast M15, which has bags more character and still flocs amazingly well.

 

[An Ankoù]

In spite of all the aclaim for Notty, above, I'm still worried about yeast floaters on bottled beer, deposits on the side of the bottle and a thick layer on the bottom. Choice of yeast isn't the whole story, I feel. And kit yeasts are not that awful these days, are they?

 

[gmc]

It sounds as if you're bottling far to early- not necessarily from the hydrometer's point of view, rather from the "brightness" of your beer. You shouldn't have any bits on the surface or inner walls and anything on the bottom should be just discernible. Moreover, your beer shouldn't taste yeasty.
It may be that your problems are linked to the warm temperature we've been having. If that's the case use a kveik, but normally your beer should be pretty clear before you bottle it.
It would help if you described the whole process.

Thank you all for the fast and informed opinions that I have come to expect here. I will be giving the notty a go for my next batch going on this week.

As for the whole process. I imagine mine is fairly basic;

1, Get the brew going with good sanitisation and I hydrate the yeast when pitching. I put a lot of time into stirring as I add the water, which is usually tesco bottled water. I don't think I have any issues on the sanitisation front.

2. Take reading with the hydrometer, but I am happy to be patient. 2 weeks minimum in primary, but I am using 3 weeks as a standard now because why not. My last batch was 10 weeks because of unforeseen circumstances, so too short in primary was definitely not a problem with this one, even though it looks overly yeasty in the bootle.

3. bottling day, transfer into bottling bucket trying to leave as much yeast in the primary as possibly. Syphon straight into my sanitised bottles from the bottling bucket.

4. leave at household temperatures for 3 weeks in the dark whilst periodically looking at one of the clear glass bottles to get an idea.

Some batches have been in winter and some in summer but all have been at household temps with no additional cooling or warming. Both winter batches and summer batches have had overly yeasty flavours.

 

[gmc]

I can add that I don't have the facilities to cold crash or use any techniques that go beyond the basic tools. I also can't comment on what yeasts were used in the kits as the packages had no specific labels

 

[Drunkula]

And kit yeasts are not that awful these days, are they?

There's a hella load of s-33 out there. Little silver packet with a three letter code = s-33. Geordie, John Bull, etc.

 

[jMac]

I never cold crash either, use only Irish moss (no other finings) and I don’t usually have a problem with beer pouring bright from the bottle (unless it’s a yeast drive style ). I am an AG brewer though, but I can’t see what difference that would make be at this stage of the process.

Sorry if this seems a silly question to you, but you are definitely taking care when pouring from the bottle to try and leave the majority of yeast in the bottle? I know this isn’t going to stop the odd floater, but they shouldn’t really make your beer taste over yeasty.

 

[jMac]

Sorry, me again. Just had a thought! How and how much are you carbonating? I’ve sometimes found highly/over carbonated bottled beers can easily throw settled yeast back into suspension when opened, particularly if not poured smoothly.

Also, you mentioned in the OP that this hadn’t been the case for all your brews? Maybeif you could post which kits you’ve experienced this issue with and some which you haven’t, someone here, with more experience than me, could offer some advice on the kits in question.

 

[An Ankoù]

As for the whole process. I imagine mine is fairly basic;

It all looks fine. Maybe a change of yeast is the way forward, but I still don't get why there's so much getting into the bottle. I see @Drunkula doesn't like S-33 and I've never used it. I see it gets some very mixed reviews. If you go for Nottingham, your beer will be somewhat drier and a bit stronger.
What kits are you using, by the way ?
I don't cold crash, either.
I'm not fond of Nottingham, personally, but it won't mess up your beer and it will settle out quickly and cleanly.
Finally, I bottle nearly all my beer and it's rarely ready to drink before 6 weeks.

 

[Drunkula]

I see @Drunkula doesn't like S-33

I'm fine with s-33 in a wheat beer - it doesn't really give an of the clove or banana flavours but it's nice enough. It's only because I've got so much of it that I use it. S-04 I've got problems with because I had a load of stuck 1.020s with it, did some searching and so did loads of other people - but apparently it really gets into the swing of things after 3 repitches. Nope. That's like saying pressure barrels are good if you spend ten hours a month welding plates over the leaks.

There's a good chance tons of people here will have used s-33 but just didn't know.

 

[terrym]

And kit yeasts are not that awful these days, are they?

No they are not awful in my experience.
When I did kits I never saw the need to automatically change the kit yeast like some people seem to do.
However what I did observe was that they mostly do not floc all that well compared to something like Notty.

That's like saying pressure barrels are good if you spend ten hours a month welding plates over the leaks.

That's a bit harsh

 

[An Ankoù]

I'm fine with s-33 in a wheat beer - it doesn't really give an of the clove or banana flavours but it's nice enough. It's only because I've got so much of it that I use it. S-04 I've got problems with because I had a load of stuck 1.020s with it, did some searching and so did loads of other people - but apparently it really gets into the swing of things after 3 repitches. Nope. That's like saying pressure barrels are good if you spend ten hours a month welding plates over the leaks.

There's a good chance tons of people here will have used s-33 but just didn't know.

I don't like S-04, either. It's the most boring yeast I've ever used. I understand S-33 is the old Edme yeast, so that would explain why it's being packaged with the old-school kits.
Pressure barrels seem to get a lot of bad press. When I was in the UK I dispensed from Boots' pressure barrels and, over a long number of years, I never had a problem. Sure, occasionally, I had to take a lid off and put a film of Vaseline on the rubber seal and once I had a tap break and had to get a pair of pliers to turn it off, but that wasn't the barrel's fault. At one time I had King Kegs and Rotakegs with floats inside and they gave me no end of grief. I quickly moved them on for as much as I'd paid for them, though.

 

[gmc]

I never cold crash either, use only Irish moss (no other finings) and I don’t usually have a problem with beer pouring bright from the bottle (unless it’s a yeast drive style ). I am an AG brewer though, but I can’t see what difference that would make be at this stage of the process.

Sorry if this seems a silly question to you, but you are definitely taking care when pouring from the bottle to try and leave the majority of yeast in the bottle? I know this isn’t going to stop the odd floater, but they shouldn’t really make your beer taste over yeasty.

I am taking care when pouring and I am leaving at least 1 inch in the bottom. When I go to clean the bottle, I swirl up the beer thats left and I comes out looking like chocolate milk shake because of the disk on the bottom.

Sorry, me again. Just had a thought! How and how much are you carbonating? I’ve sometimes found highly/over carbonated bottled beers can easily throw settled yeast back into suspension when opened, particularly if not poured smoothly.

Also, you mentioned in the OP that this hadn’t been the case for all your brews? Maybeif you could post which kits you’ve experienced this issue with and some which you haven’t, someone here, with more experience than me, could offer some advice on the kits in question.

The overly yeastlyness was with all the kits I have tried. The variety I described was among different bottles of the same batch. Interesting point about the carbonation. I typically like my beer to be fairly fizzy but nothing extreme. I have been aiming for 2.5 volumes using this calculator. I have had no bottle bombs or gushing beers on opening. They have all been very well behaved.

The kits I have used so far in clude,

Festival Golden Stag
Woodfords Nelson
Youngs American Pale Ale

I have bought a few more Youngs Amierican kits which will be the next ones to go on. The Youngs pale ale has been bottled for 3 weeks already, but I can see a lot of yeast in those bottles already.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

 

[terrym]

I am taking care when pouring and I am leaving at least 1 inch in the bottom. When I go to clean the bottle, I swirl up the beer thats left and I comes out looking like chocolate milk shake because of the disk on the bottom.



The overly yeastlyness was with all the kits I have tried. The variety I described was among different bottles of the same batch. Interesting point about the carbonation. I typically like my beer to be fairly fizzy but nothing extreme. I have been aiming for 2.5 volumes using this calculator. I have had no bottle bombs or gushing beers on opening. They have all been very well behaved.

The kits I have used so far in clude,

Festival Golden Stag
Woodfords Nelson
Youngs American Pale Ale

I have bought a few more Youngs Amierican kits which will be the next ones to go on. The Youngs pale ale has been bottled for 3 weeks already, but I can see a lot of yeast in those bottles already.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

As @An Ankou has said it sounds like you are bottling too early to me, not helped by low floc chararacteristics of some of the yeast in the kits you have brewed. You should be aiming for clear or nearly clear beer at bottling time. There will be enough yeast in there to carb up your beer it may take a little longer that's all. And that means longer in the FV. A good target is two weeks although for some kits that may not be long enough. The Youngs AIPA can take three weeks or more in the FV. And it will help beer to clear in the FV if you have a cool or better cold place in which to put your beer. After carbing is done, a 1mm yeast at the bottom of the bottle is ideally all you should have. But the longer you leave it in conditioning the more stuck it should get, and again if you have a cold place that will encourage the yeast to drop during conditioning to give you clear beer, especially if you leave it long enough, say four weeks or more.
Next the Youngs range use authentic beer style yeasts if you believe the blurb and my experience of that was the AIPA yeast which would cloud up if you so much as looked at it. So I suggest you buy a Notty/GV12/Wilko Ale yeast as I said earlier and try that on your Nelson kit next and see how it goes.
But if all else fails you could try gelatin finings but I only tried it once and ended up with floating strands in my beer so wont be using it again.

 

[gmc]

Thanks you all very much for your input. I am going to go with the gv12 for the next few batches to see how that turns out. I will consider finings in due course, but I don't think I have the knowledge to make informed decisions on that one just yet.

 

[Drunkula]

But if all else fails you could try gelatin finings but I only tried it once and ended up with floating strands in my beer so wont be using it again.

That happens if you use too much. Or if you tried using it at bottling. That is a sight to behold. It's deffo the "Jacuzzi at a swingers' party" effect that I've mentioned.

 

[Covrich]

IMO don't pick a yeast on whether it flocs or not, pick the one that is right for your style

gervin g12 /nottingham is okay for general use this but imo its kind of bland for a beer and if you are making hop forward beers then it isn't well suited but it is a good place to start