Worried about space when Lagering

[Marcus Roper]

Well guys Lagering my All grain Helle Export Lager in the deep freeze with temperature control.
The worry I have is the head space and oxygen coming in contact with the lager for a long period during the lagering phase.
The lager had a warm rest phase for DMS.
Should I worry?? M ps. The tube has a valve on the end, all fermentation start 1.048 finished 1.008.

 

[Hoppyland]

Well, I don't do lager, but I think that is unimportant. If that amount of headspace contains much air - and therefore oxygen - then the beer will be adversely affected no matter what the temperature, if it sits there for anything other the briefest of periods. If you plan to mature beer like this then, in my experience, you definitely need to purge the airspace with CO2 (or any other oxygen-free gas, I guess.....)

 

[BeerCat]

The headspace will be filled with co2 from fermentation so not an problem. The only time I open my FV is to add finings once it's down to near freezing. Put a balloon on the end of your airlock before crashing and end of fermentation . Will prevent suckback. A week at 0c should clear the beer as long as you use finings then keg it and either drink or leave to condition.
Beer will clear faster the closest to freezing you can get it. My beers are crystal clear when I keg them and drinkable the next day.

 

[Marcus Roper]

Hi Guys
Thanks for your reply, I should have mentioned I had racked the lager into a second carboy after the primary had finished for a two week fermentation.
I previously just put the lager in a steel keg after the primary fermentation and added gelatin with some c02.
I thought I would do the official lagering method this time, just did not like all that air in the headspace. M

 

[Hoppyland]

Hi Guys
just did not like all that air in the headspace. M

Well, if the headspace isn't "air", but is CO2 and no oxygen, then no problem at all. I used to bottle a lot, but I now put most of my beers into Corny kegs. I often take many weeks, even months, to drink any single 19l keg. They usually taste fine to me, down to the last pints. By which time, there must be very little beer, and one hell of a lot of headspace - but this will be 100% CO2. In my experience, a large headspace is not a problem in itself. It just becomes more difficult (and probably expensive!) to initially purge the oxygen from the headspace. But if you don't, your quality will suffer, probably quite badly.

 

[Marcus Roper]

Well, if the headspace isn't "air", but is CO2 and no oxygen, then no problem at all. I used to bottle a lot, but I now put most of my beers into Corny kegs. I often take many weeks, even months, to drink any single 19l keg. They usually taste fine to me, down to the last pints. By which time, there must be very little beer, and one hell of a lot of headspace - but this will be 100% CO2. In my experience, a large headspace is not a problem in itself. It just becomes more difficult (and probably expensive!) to initially purge the oxygen from the headspace. But if you don't, your quality will suffer, probably quite badly.

Thanks for your thoughts,
I might stick to using corny kegs to lager and put a few pounds of CO2 on top and vent any O2 left inside. If I do lager again in the glass carboy, I’m setting up a CO2 nozzle and fill the void at the top before closing the valve and putting in the freezer to lager. On the bright side tastes good. M

 

[foxy]

What I do is something similar to this, or have a look at coffin dodger's posts Noddy to the rescue.

 

[Dutto]

I don't think there is any need to worry, and if there is then at least it is three months down the line!

I've lagered for up to 12 weeks at 10*C without a problem. Nowadays, after a week at 19*C to 22*C fermentation I rack the brew into a second FV, add a low temperature lager yeast (e.g. Youngs) and then drop the temperature down to 10*C. level for the lagering process.

Back in 2016 I did this slightly different in that I used the kit yeast all the way through the process:

COOPERS LAGER
Destined for long term lagering in fridge
Started 23rd August 2016 with addition of 950g Golden Syrup and 50g of Fuggles hop pellets.
Youngs lager yeast pitched at 23 degrees. Fermenting at 21 degrees in fridge.
Racked to second FV on 1st September 2016.
Lagering at 10 degrees from 1st September to 8th November.
Bottled in flip-tops 8thNovember 2016
OG 1.042
FG 1.010
ABV 4.2%

It was a superb drink!

 

[Clint]

Do you start it with ale yeast for the first week...and if so why do you add drop it then add lager yeast? As you have temp control why not do the lot with lager yeast?

 

[Marcus Roper]

I don't think there is any need to worry, and if there is then at least it is three months down the line!

I've lagered for up to 12 weeks at 10*C without a problem. Nowadays, after a week at 19*C to 22*C fermentation I rack the brew into a second FV, add a low temperature lager yeast (e.g. Youngs) and then drop the temperature down to 10*C. level for the lagering process.

Back in 2016 I did this slightly different in that I used the kit yeast all the way through the process:

COOPERS LAGER
Destined for long term lagering in fridge
Started 23rd August 2016 with addition of 950g Golden Syrup and 50g of Fuggles hop pellets.
Youngs lager yeast pitched at 23 degrees. Fermenting at 21 degrees in fridge.
Racked to second FV on 1st September 2016.
Lagering at 10 degrees from 1st September to 8th November.
Bottled in flip-tops 8thNovember 2016
OG 1.042
FG 1.010
ABV 4.2%

It was a superb drink!

That's very intresting, I must admit I fermented at 12c and lager at 2c for clarity with liquid yeast or mangrove Jack's. I do however do the DMs rest at 19c for a week at least to clean up. Normally I start the process at 50% completed fermentation. I brew mostly all grain but love the simplicity of kits. Thanks for your help M

 

[Marcus Roper]

Do you start it with ale yeast for the first week...and if so why do you add drop it then add lager yeast? As you have temp control why not do the lot with lager yeast?

Hi There
I have temperature control, so lager yeast and a tilt computer

 

[Clint]

Sorry...my bad...post directed at Dutto!

 

[Dutto]

Do you start it with ale yeast for the first week...and if so why do you add drop it then add lager yeast? As you have temp control why not do the lot with lager yeast?

With an AG brew I generally use Wilko Ale Yeast (aka Gervin-12) to start and with a kit I generally start off with the yeast provided. Neither of these are normally something that will ferment at temperatures as low as 10*C.

I usually reserve long-term "lagering" for those times when I know I will be way from home for ten or twelve weeks. It's nice to come home to a brew that is crystal clear and ready for carbonating. (Also, after 10-12 weeks away I know that I will have plenty of empty Growlers and PB's that will be in need of filling.)

The Wilko Light Golden Lager I have on at the moment won't be lagered at all, so I will just follow Wilko's instructions and be drinking it by mid-August!

I know it won't taste as nice as a lagered brew, but I'll probably manage to force it down somehow!

 

[Clint]

Thank you...being away from it explains a lot ..