what water is best?

[Deltabrew]

Very strange, I'm in W.Yorks too and don't have the hardness issue, I wonder where they are piping your supply from, London?!

I always remember the first time I spent down there and initially couldn't understand how I couldn't get the soap to lather up. :wha:

Brita filters maybe: http://www.brita.co.uk/brita/en-gb/cms/cpd.grid

Or just collect your own....

 

[dave0w]

it may just be additives there using. if there is a bug in the water they just bombard it with chemicals.

i am in Pontefract right next to the local water tower, my mum as the same problems as me in Wakefield

 

[pjc]

My tap water is very hard but I run the water through one of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/water-filter-cartridge/14377 which reduces the hardness and removes chlorine. Then I use CRS to get the carbonate down to the required levels.

 

[Aleman]

Hardness GOOD! Carbonates BAD! Removing hardness using a filter is not a good thing for beer. . . Removing alkalinity (carbonates) is a very good thing. Most water filters that remove hardness do so using ion exchange and the cheaper ones (and those that do not say what they do) usually swap sodium for calcium in a 2 for 1 deal . . . . Sodium above 50ppm can have a detrimental effect on beer quality . . .if you have 150mg/l calcium (hardness) and you filter then you could have 300mg/l Sodium . . . The better filters use a decent deionising resin which swap cations for H+ and Anions for OH- . . .but these need more frequent changing

Randomly choosing a bottled water from a supermarket is really just playing Russian Roulette with what water you are using. The cheap value waters change composition as the supermarket changes source, if you get used to brewing with one water, you may suddenly be surprised when the beer quality goes downhill.

Two that a known for their stability, and suitability as a base water for making good beer are ASDA Smart Price and Tesco Asbeck. Both are low mineral content water which means that ideally you need to add a tsp of gypsum to the mash and one to the boil for all beers apart from pilsners when you will want to use calcium chloride.

Remember that for kit beers there is no real reason to use anything other than tap water to make them up The main purpose for water treatment is to ensure the mash pH falls in the right range . . . which tends to imply that all the other reactions subsequent will be all right. One reason you might want to use a consistent low mineral content water for kits is that, in theory, the kit manufacturer has already supplied all the minerals required in the kit, so you don't need to add any more.

If you do use tap water to make up your kits then remember to treat for chlorine with 1/2 a campden tablet in 10 gallons.

Water composition varies quite dramatically within a region as different areas are supplied from different sources, one person may have soft water (supplied form the moors) and another only a couple of miles away may have hard water (Borehole supplied)

 

[dave0w]

Hardness GOOD!

then i should keep using my tap water and just add the sodium metabisulphite as i have been doing

 

[anthonyUK]

It doesn't matter what you do with filters etc but you still need to know what your water contains especially if you are AG brewing.
If a filter is reducing scale it is more than likely an ion exchange filter e.g. adding salts.

It has been said before but anything less is simply guesswork or alchemy.

 

[Mickeywheelspin]

Randomly choosing a bottled water from a supermarket is really just playing Russian Roulette with what water you are using. The cheap value waters change composition as the supermarket changes source, if you get used to brewing with one water, you may suddenly be surprised when the beer quality goes downhill.

A fair point, but the water here is so poor I don't drink it without passing it through a Britta Filter - its usual for people moving into our village to be mildly ill for a couple of days while they acclimatise. To filter 40 pints through a Brita jug would take an age and I'm not going to fork out for a swanky inline filter or water treatment when I can buy bottles for a couple of quid. The bottles are also more convenient if you're brewing where there isn't a tap and there's no added time for treating the water.

Remember that for kit beers there is no real reason to use anything other than tap water to make them up

Agreed, and the moment I'm only doing kits and the bottled stuff will always be an improvement on what we get out of the tap. If I get into AG I'll look at water treatment a bit more seriously but for now the bottles are cheap and convenient.

 

[dave0w]

Remember that for kit beers there is no real reason to use anything other than tap water to make them up

Agreed, and the moment I'm only doing kits and the bottled stuff will always be an improvement on what we get out of the tap. If I get into AG I'll look at water treatment a bit more seriously but for now the bottles are cheap and convenient.

:thumb:

 

[alf1887]

What makes you think you have hard water? Yorkshire is a soft water area.
If you want cheap good water go for a walk in the countryside with a few bottles....

My water is slightly hard according to Yorkshire Waters water profile

 

[dave0w]

What makes you think you have hard water? Yorkshire is a soft water area.
If you want cheap good water go for a walk in the countryside with a few bottles....

My water is slightly hard according to Yorkshire Waters water profile

now that my friend is an awesome profile photo.

 

[alf1887]

:

 

[alf1887]

What makes you think you have hard water? Yorkshire is a soft water area.
If you want cheap good water go for a walk in the countryside with a few bottles....

My water is slightly hard according to Yorkshire Waters water profile

now that my friend is an awesome profile photo.

:

 

[Ceejay]

Hardness GOOD!

then i should keep using my tap water and just add the sodium metabisulphite as i have been doing

The point is that, if you really want to know what water to use, you need to get a water report or get your water tested. That way you'll know if you can use your tap water treated with sodmet and maybe gypsum and/or CaCl, or if it's best to use one of the tried and tested bottled water that Aleman alluded to.

 

[NickW]

Aleman recommended to me using asda smart price water with a tsp of gypsum in the mash and a tsp in the boil. Is working great so far :thumb:

Though I may consider treating my own tap water for wheat beers as per pittsy's advice :thumb:

 

[winelight]

Remember that for kit beers there is no real reason to use anything other than tap water to make them up

Very useful post, thanks. I have to say that I've used tap water, filtered water and bottled water and not really been able to tell any difference in the finished product.

 

[dave0w]

Remember that for kit beers there is no real reason to use anything other than tap water to make them up

Very useful post, thanks. I have to say that I've used tap water, filtered water and bottled water and not really been able to tell any difference in the finished product.

that is the sort of reply i was looking for.

 

[oldjiver]

I just boil my hard 325 carbonate water for twenty minutes. The chalk drops to the bottom before its dropped to strike temperature. I add a little gypsum as a mater of course. Always worked for me.

 

[anthonyUK]

I just boil my hard 325 carbonate water for twenty minutes. The chalk drops to the bottom before its dropped to strike temperature. I add a little gypsum as a mater of course. Always worked for me.

How much does the carbonate reduce by Oldjiver?

 

[oldjiver]

Being a non-scientist I have no way of measuring. But "empirically" (practically) the bottom of the boiler always has a layer of chalk after the boil. Also checking the mash with litmus paper gives 5.3.ph. (in the mash, dont just measure the water) And my mash always converts completely (no blue in the iodine) I understand that the hardness is in the form of Calcium bicarbonate (which is soluble) and boiling knocks off one of the carbon atoms making it Calcium carbonate (which is not soluble) so it drops out.
(can any scientific folk add to this?)

 

[Aleman]

I understand that the hardness is in the form of Calcium bicarbonate (which is soluble) and boiling knocks off one of the carbon atoms making it Calcium carbonate (which is not soluble) so it drops out.
(can any scientific folk add to this?)

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Never ever ever mention hardness in the same sentence as carbonates!!! they are two separate things that are only coincidentally related.

HARDNESS GOOD, carbonates (Alkalinity) BAD!!!

Burton water has high hardness (Calcium > 250ppm), but low (ish) carbonate/bicarbonate as the calcium is partnered with sulphate (permanent hardness rather than temporary).

Boilings splits a bond in bicarbonate (HC03-) to leave CO2 and OH- . . the CO2 is driven off

2 HCO3– -> (CO3)2– + CO2

The carbonate reacts with calcium to form calcium carbonate, which precipitates . . . but you do need to cool the water and leave it somewhere still for it to form.

You can estimate the effect of boiling for decarbonation (removing bicarbonate) by the following formula: boiling will remove all but about 30 to 40 ppm of carbonate-bicarbonate; at the same time, it will remove 3 ppm of calcium for every 5 ppm of carbonate. For example, if your water has a total alkalinity of 150 ppm, boiling will remove 110 to 120 ppm of that amount. At the same time, the calcium content of your water will be lowered by 66 to 72 ppm.

It is alleged that it is possible to reduce the alkalinity down to 50-80ppm through adding gypsum and boiling hard for 30 minutes . . . but having tried it in East Anglia found that the practical limit was around 135mg/l . . . making it a pretty ineffective method compared to say acid treatment, especially when you consider the energy used to do so.