Should a thin, or a thick mash, give higher mash efficiency?

[peterpiper]

....... However one has to realise this was not a full volume mash so I cannot say what would have happened had I done that. The firgure for the sparging points could have been lower because of the increased reciculating volume.
edit
Looking at the figures I am inclined to think that a full volume mash would deliver much closer to the total gravity points obtained that these calculations would suggest. For example if we take the total points obtained from the 20L mashing volume and compare that to the points obtained from notional volume less grain absorption we see that the sugars held in the grains prior to sparging is only 103 pts ... is it not reasonable to assume if we increase the mash volume to the full 36L liquor volume that these gravity points would have been eluted from the grains by wort recirculation during the 90' mashing period ? I personally am inclined to think that this is very likely.

Sounds convincing.
Experiment, comparing full volume mash with a thick mash + sparge, would be interesting. Using same equipment; recipe; temps; and total water.

EDIT:
Brulosophy did a BATCH SPARGE VS. NO SPARGE IN A KÖLSCH comparison. Findings: batch sparge gave a slightly higher OG than the no sparge wort, with a 3% difference in brewhouse efficiency, but no sparge was preferred in the taste tests.

https://brulosophy.com/2016/08/29/mash-methods-pt-2-batch-sparge-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

 

[peterpiper]

Are you saying that 1000's of years brewing knowledge have been succeeded by a cheap Chinese thermometer.

I will accept they may have a plan to take over the world but this was really how I envisioned it. One beer at a time.

Brewtoof secret leapon

For 'thousands' of years brewing was done without thermometers. Step mashing was a way to get repeatable temperatures, without having a thermometer.

Thermometers were invented around 430 years ago, but the first accurate ones date from around 315 years ago, and electronic ones from WW2. It's only been for a handfull of years, that many AIO brewers have been able to (automatically) chart grain bed temperature vs heated wort temperature.

In 1984 the novelist Thomas Pynchon wondered if it was “O.K. to be a Luddite, but that question's now been replaced by - is it possible?
People should feel sympathy, for those who can't cope with all the new fangled technology.

 

[jambop]

Sounds convincing.
Experiment, comparing full volume mash with a thick mash + sparge, would be interesting. Using same equipment; recipe; temps; and total water.

EDIT:
Brulosophy did a BATCH SPARGE VS. NO SPARGE IN A KÖLSCH comparison. Findings: batch sparge gave a slightly higher OG than the no sparge wort, with a 3% difference in brewhouse efficiency, but no sparge was preferred in the taste tests.

https://brulosophy.com/2016/08/29/mash-methods-pt-2-batch-sparge-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

BIAB is slightly different to say using an AIO system. The BIAB naturally gives up a greater volume of wort from the spent grains than the AIO so I am told. Also, and I do not know that it is the case here, BIAB crush grains finer than most AIO brewers would . I suspect that this releases more tannins, that a course crush would, and of course this is tannin release increased when you sparge. So you could see why the test revealed that people could tell the difference between the two beers ?

 

[Slid]

Thanks, interesting to hear what's worked out in best in long term.
If you ever brew with high % wheat or rye malts, do you change your process?

Sweet spot - is figure the total grain weight?

Is 20min 'doughing in', the time for grain bed rest without recirculation?

Could 25L min, be say either 25L x 1 min duration, or 12.5L x 2 min?

Sorry for the slow reply, life and work have both been hectic of late!

4.5-5kg sweet spot is for total grain bill
Doughing in is the time when you add the grain a bit at a time and stir the wort after each small addition
25L is the minimum volume I am aiming for in the primary FV. After racking to secondary this will get you ~ 48 x 500ml bottles of beer.