More Advanced Water Treatment

[strange-steve]

Just been reading in Gordon Strong's Brewing Better Beer that mash pH is measured at mash temp, and that if the sample is cooled it will read around 0.35 higher than at mash temp.
Is this right as it might explain the higher than expected pH results I've been getting?
:cheers7:

I just had a look at the book (a very good book btw) and he says this:

The mash pH should be in the 5.1 to 5.5 range with a target of about 5.2 to 5.3. By convention, mash pH readings are always expressed at room temperature (68° F/20° C). The pH will read differently at other temperatures since pH is temperature-dependent. For example, a pH reading at typical mash temperatures will be about 0.3 lower than the same reading at room temperature.

 

[dan125]

I'm only 40 pages in, but enjoying it so far. That's odd though because my copy says (p34):

The mash pH should be in the 5.2 to 5.5 range with a target of about 5.3. Note that mash pH is measued at mash temperatures, not cooled. If you cool the mash, the pH will read about 0.35 higher than at mash temperature.

 

[strange-steve]

I wonder if this is something that was changed in later versions of the book because what I quoted above is also from p34. I have the Kindle version which I presume would be the latest edition, do you have a hard copy?

 

[strange-steve]

In any case, the mash pH should be taken at room temperature. I don't recall hearing anyone ever suggest otherwise.

 

[dan125]

In any case, the mash pH should be taken at room temperature. I don't recall hearing anyone ever suggest otherwise.

Thanks Steve - yeah I have a new hard copy, 2011 edition - so it may well have been updated since then.
Still a little bit of work to do on my mash pH then, as I'm struggling to get it below 5.5
:cheers7:

 

[strange-steve]

5.5 is a perfectly acceptable pH but if you want to get it down a little more then one thing you could try is, rather than splitting the calcium salts between the mash and sparge water, add it all to the mash. The increased calcium should drive the pH down some more.

 

[private4587]

Hi Steve i have the opposite problem in that i am trying to raise my pH. I use 100% RO water and when making stouts, porters i am having problems raising the pH without drastically altering the salt additions?

 

[strange-steve]

Hi Steve i have the opposite problem in that i am trying to raise my pH. I use 100% RO water and when making stouts, porters i am having problems raising the pH without drastically altering the salt additions?

Yeah RO isn't a good starting point for dark beers. What's your tap water profile like?

 

[private4587]

Hi Steve i have attached file and using kits my Calcium is 40ppm and alkalinity is 50ppm

 

[strange-steve]

Hi Steve i have attached file and using kits my Calcium is 40ppm and alkalinity is 50ppm

Your water is actually pretty good so a couple of suggestions:

For pale beers use half and half tap water and RO which will effectively give you a baseline of 20ppm calcium, 25ppm alkalinity, 5ppm chloride and 27ppm sulphate. Adjust from there as appropriate.

For dark beers use 100% tap water and adjust from there. It'll be easier to get the appropriate alkalinity with tap water than RO.

I don't really recommend 100% RO water, because there are a lot of trace minerals in tap water which are almost certainly beneficial for flavour and yeast health.

 

[private4587]

Thanks for your advice Steve, I will progress my brews using your as usual excellent advice

 

[mabrungard]

Hi Steve i have the opposite problem in that i am trying to raise my pH. I use 100% RO water and when making stouts, porters i am having problems raising the pH without drastically altering the salt additions?

Baking soda in the mashing water is quite effective in keeping the mashing pH up in a preferred range of 5.4 to 5.6 for darker styles like most porters and stouts. While it looks like you'd be adding a high amount of sodium to your brew, its actually diluted by the sparging water that is free of baking soda.

 

[braziliain]

@strange-steve

I just wanted to echo everyone else here in adding my thanks for your effort in putting these guides together.

Your two water threads along with the Salifert threads are no nonsense, straight to the point and easy to follow. I've been putting off water treatment for ages and you've made me wonder why.

Have you thought of writing a book?!

 

[bobukbrewer]

my tap water is alkalinity 242 mg/L as CaCO3, total hardness as CaCO3 423, pH 7.4
chloride 71, magnesium 9.3, SO4 111, calcium 81, sodium 46

my question - If I dilute tap water 1:1 with ashbeck water, or even 2:1 can I stop using CRS
and should I add any CaSO4 or MgSO4

thanks

 

[bobukbrewer]

by the way the bottled water is chloride 12 magnesium 12 sulphate 14 calcium 38 sodium 8

 

[Simonh82]

my tap water is alkalinity 242 mg/L as CaCO3, total hardness as CaCO3 423, pH 7.4
chloride 71, magnesium 9.3, SO4 111, calcium 81, sodium 46

my question - If I dilute tap water 1:1 with ashbeck water, or even 2:1 can I stop using CRS
and should I add any CaSO4 or MgSO4

thanks

What is it that is worrying you about your brewing water? To me your water doesn't look bad for brewing with, you just need to reduce the alkalinity for pale ales, which is what the CRS is for. The sulphate and chloride are close enough that you could tweak it either way if you want too. If CRS is too pricy, then Phosphoric acid is cheaper. Both are cheaper than using bottled water and it seems counter-intuitive that you might want to use bottled soft water but then add minerals back in again.

 

[Ghillie]

For those interested - I have been using one of these since treating my water and it's very good. Comes complete with 3 sachets for adding to distilled water to give a given pH for calibration purposes (should you need to). I made one sachet up and have it stored in a jar, this will be usable for up to 3 months.

http://www.home-brew-online.com/equipment-c40/keg-king-beverage-doctor-pen-style-ph-meter-p3342

The temperature adjustment function is great and means you can get pH readings quickly from your mash without having to chill it too much. The temperature correction function works up to 50C.

A very handy piece of kit that makes for ultra fast and accurate pH measurements.

 

[bobukbrewer]

Simon - many thanks. Not worried about costs at all. Just wondering if I could improve my very pale smash beers. might try adding MgSO4 to bring the SO4 / Cl ratio up to 4:1........................

 

[Simonh82]

For those interested - I have been using one of these since treating my water and it's very good. Comes complete with 3 sachets for adding to distilled water to give a given pH for calibration purposes (should you need to). I made one sachet up and have it stored in a jar, this will be usable for up to 3 months.

http://www.home-brew-online.com/equipment-c40/keg-king-beverage-doctor-pen-style-ph-meter-p3342

The temperature adjustment function is great and means you can get pH readings quickly from your mash without having to chill it too much. The temperature correction function works up to 50C.

A very handy piece of kit that makes for ultra fast and accurate pH measurements.

View attachment 16586

That look's a lot like the HM Digital meter that I paid quite a few quid more for. Slightly different body but I bet the insides are the same. I really like it and so far it has proved reliable for the past couple of years.

 

[Ghillie]

That look's a lot like the HM Digital meter that I paid quite a few quid more for. Slightly different body but I bet the insides are the same. I really like it and so far it has proved reliable for the past couple of years.

Looks very similar - replaceable probe, waterproof, etc.

More than double the price though, but as long as it works that's the main thing. You never know, mine might last just half the time that yours willaunsure....