Free Scotland

[samale]

Is Spit an acronym
Socialist Political Irish Terrorist????

He's a former peace keeper of Ireland. I will let you join the dots

 

[Bosch]

Sinn Fein/IRA (spit) MPs do not swear alliegence to the crown - and don't it in the house as a result.

Historical aside, Countess Constance Markieviczc was the first woman to be elected to the House of commons.

She obviously didn't take her seat as she was a Sinn Fein/IRA (spit) mp and took her seat in the rebel Irish parliament.

 

[Stan's Brew]

The debate on this thread is about what the people want as represented by their elected representatives (is Sturgeon elected?), but ruling MPs and the Judiciary, who, when not serving their own bank accounts, serve the Monarch not the people, all lines of 'democratic' power lead back to the King.

I'm not sure the discussion is really examining the real issue around why there is not a referendum being granted.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Them trains are nice my brother in law may have built them

 

[devexwarrior]

The debate on this thread is about what the people want as represented by their elected representatives (is Sturgeon elected?), but ruling MPs and the Judiciary, who, when not serving their own bank accounts, serve the Monarch not the people, all lines of 'democratic' power lead back to the King.

I'm not sure the discussion is really examining the real issue around why there is not a referendum being granted.

I don't want to open old arguments, but the referendum is not being granted because the Law says it needs the approval of the Westminster (ie UK) Government and they have said it will not be forthcoming. That's it. That's the law.

 

[Bosch]

The debate on this thread is about what the people want as represented by their elected representatives (is Sturgeon elected?), but ruling MPs and the Judiciary, who, when not serving their own bank accounts, serve the Monarch not the people, all lines of 'democratic' power lead back to the King.

I'm not sure the discussion is really examining the real issue around why there is not a referendum being granted.

My understanding of UK constitutional law is, tbh, not great.

But I would imagine that this would have never have been an issue (a second referendum)without Brexit.

I reckon the patronising attitude of some English politicians and institutions towards Scotland may raise some heckles and increase the support for independence.

 

[foxy]

I can't understand any reasoning to split the union. It isn't as though the countries were so diverse to each other. We aren't back in the days of William Wallace, this is the 21st century, there are Scottish heritage in England and visa versa. UK is tiny enough without making it smaller.

 

[An Ankoù]

Sinn Fein/IRA (spit) MPs do not swear alliegence to the crown - and don't it in the house as a result. Charles was recorded as saying while PoW that once he acceded the throne he would have to become impartial. I'm fairly happy with the way things are run compared to some systems. When I'm asked why we have a Constitutional Monarch as Head of State I usually really "It stops TonyG Blair being President".

How is that an improvement? The monarch serves nobody but the Royal family, and serves that interest very well. An elected president (if there has to be a president) can just as easily be unelected. A president (if there has to be a president) serves for a fixed term. Bring on Tony Blair! Boris (spit) for president!!
Sinn Fein are a ligitimate political party in Ireland and in the occupied counties. They are anti-colonist. Not everybody supports colonialism as the UK is beginning to discover in Scotland.
But this isn't a pro or anti monarchy thread, it's essentially about whether Scotland is a country which remains in the Union by consent or just a northern region of Britain, with no more right to self determination than, say Greater Manchester.
Its not even a thread about whether Scotland should or should not be Independent, its about the right to choose, as and when and as frequently as the Scots and only the Scots see fit to choose.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I can't understand any reasoning to split the union. It isn't as though the countries were so diverse to each other. We aren't back in the days of William Wallace, this is the 21st century, there are Scottish heritage in England and visa versa. UK is tiny enough without making it smaller.

Politically, there are significant differences. Heritage and history doesn't cease to exist when a political relationship changes. What does size have to do with anything?

 

[foxy]

Politically, there are significant differences. Heritage and history doesn't cease to exist when a political relationship changes. What does size have to do with anything?

Size has a lot to do with everything, especially when the UK is so small. What are the advantages of splitting from the union? Och Aye we are independent now! I think common sense will prevail. More so than the last referendum. There are some intelligent people in Scotland.

 

[An Ankoù]

I can't understand any reasoning to split the union. It isn't as though the countries were so diverse to each other. We aren't back in the days of William Wallace, this is the 21st century, there are Scottish heritage in England and visa versa. UK is tiny enough without making it smaller.

It's not really like that. Imagine that, pre-brexit, the UK and other EU member states were told that henceforth, they were countries in name only and that no one had the right to self determination and could not leave without the permission of Europe as a whole. Isn't that something like the UKs arrangement with Scotland? But there the analogy ends. The UK has completely fluffed Brexit with its refusal to maintain even a customs union (except in NI, which is prospering in spite of what DUP, spit, claims) and to stop all movement of essential workers to the detriment of British industry and growth.
I haven't heard that an independent Scotland would want to limit trade with England and Wales, or that they would want to curtail the free movement of people.
An independent Scotland could urgently re-establish a customs union with Europe and prosper, too. Merry England might even cast an eye over the newly formed land border and finally realise that the ERG are really the DUP of Great Britain and give them their marching orders.
Bring it on I say.

 

[An Ankoù]

Size has a lot to do with everything, especially when the UK is so small. What are the advantages of splitting from the union? Och Aye we are independent now! I think common sense will prevail. More so than the last referendum. There are some intelligent people in Scotland.

Where's your argument @foxy ? Size is important because the UK is small? Switzerland is small, Monaco is tiny, Luxembourg is microscopic. All these countries punch well above their weight in the wealth stakes.
Free Tasmania from the lumbering juggernaut of the mainland, I say. Let her fly!

 

[Brew_DD2]

Size has a lot to do with everything, especially when the UK is so small. What are the advantages of splitting from the union? Och Aye we are independent now! I think common sense will prevail. More so than the last referendum. There are some intelligent people in Scotland.

Size means nothing. Europe is full of prosperous little countries.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I haven't heard that an independent Scotland would want to limit trade with England and Wales, or that they would want to curtail the free movement of people

And surely the rUK wouldn't be so spiteful or try to impose restrictions, or be difficult with a nation they love so much.

 

[An Ankoù]

And surely the rUK wouldn't be so spiteful or try to impose restrictions, or be difficult with a nation they love so much.

Dream on. May, Patel, Braverman show just how vindictive the present regime can be. The embodiment of pure evil in the case of these three. Still, all Scotland has to do is restrict whisky supplies and Westmonster (a typo, but I'll go with it) will roll over like a puppy.

 

[Davegase]

Maybe they should have an annual referendum until the SNP get the result they want

 

[foxy]

Where's your argument @foxy ? Size is important because the UK is small? Switzerland is small, Monaco is tiny, Luxembourg is microscopic. All these countries punch well above their weight in the wealth stakes.
Free Tasmania from the lumbering juggernaut of the mainland, I say. Let her fly!

The difference being the small countries of Europe have not been entwined to other countries for the past 300 years. Trying to unravel the past will only lead to disappointment. A vote has been held and I would imagine should another vote be held the margin to stay in the union would be higher. Just my considerations.

 

[Brewnaldo]

The difference being the small countries of Europe have not been entwined to other countries for the past 300 years. Trying to unravel the past will only lead to disappointment. A vote has been held and I would imagine should another vote be held the margin to stay in the union would be higher. Just my considerations.

None of this is relevant. The relevant debate here is not whether a referendum would be won or lost. The debate is the circumstances by which one should be granted.

The people of Scotland have repeatedly returned Scotgovs and MPs to UK Parliament whose mandate is independence. Nicola Sturgeon has now said she will campaign the next GE on a single issue.

If a majority of Scottish MPs are SNP in that circumstance, then an undeniable mandate, if it wasn't already, will have been served up by the Scottish people that a referendum must be granted.

The question is, are you OK with an ongoing denial of this, and if so.... why?

 

[Bosch]

There are some intelligent people in Scotland.

There are lots of intelligent people in Scotland, on either side of the independence debate.
As there is in Wales & England.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Maybe they should have an annual referendum until the SNP get the result they want

Well the last one was now 8 years ago, and SNP haven't been out of power since. Might be worth checking the proportion of SNP MPs to Labour/Conservative ones voted for in Scotland.

Scotland will cease to have a mandate to ask the question when its electorate stops voting overwhelmingly for pro-independence parties.