Free Scotland

[Brewnaldo]

But brexit was voted on by the whole of the UK! This was after Scotland had voted in favour of staying part of the UK.So that doesn't hold water, you can't split hairs. You all voted as a nation, it wasn't a England Northern Ireland Scotland and Wales vote.

This is Olympic level mental gymnastics that's happening here.

 

[foxy]

This is Olympic level mental gymnastics that's happening here.

It is quite simple for most. A vote was taken, the vote was in favour for Scotland to remain part of the UK. A vote was taken on Brexit as a nation, the result was to leave. What is so hard to understand about that.

 

[Brewnaldo]

It is quite simple for most. A vote was taken, the vote was in favour for Scotland to remain part of the UK. A vote was taken on Brexit as a nation, the result was to leave. What is so hard to understand about that.

Well the people of Scotland were told the way to remain in the EU was to remain in the UK. Then 2 years later the people of Scotland indicated a desire to remain in the EU but were taken out due to the fundamental way in which the UK works as a whole. Many people in Scotland including the SNP see that as a democratic deficit, where fundamentally the people of Scotland don't get what they vote for (see also; Tory govt). On that basis, they continue to campaign for votes on the basis of a referendum, and they continue to get them. The other parties continue to be rejected.

So let's make it simpler.

On what basis should a referendum be granted?

 

[Clarence]

It is quite simple for most. A vote was taken, the vote was in favour for Scotland to remain part of the UK. A vote was taken on Brexit as a nation, the result was to leave. What is so hard to understand about that.

Indeed. So why do you appear to be having such difficulty understanding it. A vote to stay in the UK was taken. A vote to change the nature of the UK was taken. A member country wants to vote to see whether they want to continue to be member of a fundamentally different UK to the one they voted for earlier. What's so difficult about that?

Foxy does seem to be leading us round in circles like a dog chasing its own tail, don't you think.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Some people like taking their dogs out into the park, spinning a rope/toy around and enjoying watching them run around in circles chasing the toy or their tail. It brings the dog-owner joy, and a smile to the face of other passers-by.

 

[devexwarrior]

Some people like taking their dogs out into the park, spinning a rope/toy around and enjoying watching them run around in circles chasing the toy or their tail. It brings the dog-owner joy, and a smile to the face of other passers-by.

Time flies like the wind and fruit flies like bananas

 

[Agentgonzo]

Time flies like the wind and fruit flies like bananas

The canonical phrase is "Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana", but your version works just as well.

Interestingly, I had always thought it was attributed to Douglas Adams. But apparently not (nor was it originally said by Groucho Marx). Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana - Wikipedia

 

[Brew_DD2]

If a referendum went to a break from the UK do you have others the following years to see whether Scotland wants to become part of the fold again?

If the electorate vote for parties that promise that, then yes.

 

[samale]

Well why doesn't Germany or France go back to the state system? They united long after the UK did. A vote was taken, adhere to the vote, that is democracy. Sure have another vote, but at least give another generation the chance.

This is the same question that is getting asked in Ireland. Border poll and what a new Ireland will look like. Once a border poll is triggered how many years until the next if the first is unsuccessful. It is rumoured that it will be every 7 years. It's up to the SOS to call the poll, Brexit has changed everything.
You can not stand in the way of democracy

 

[Bosch]

True, neither a border poll nor Scottish independence would be an issue now without Brexit.
Kind of poured fuel on the embers

 

[Rodcx500z]

The Brexit vote was lost the day Camoran took a huge gamble, he was so sure the whole of the uk would vote to stay

 

[samale]

The Brexit vote was lost the day Camoran took a huge gamble, he was so sure the whole of the uk would vote to stay

It's not exactly going well. I hope Ireland use Brexit as an example of how not to run a referendum.

 

[dad_of_jon]

But I would imagine that this would have never have been an issue (a second referendum)without Brexit.

I reckon the patronising attitude of some English politicians and institutions towards Scotland may raise some heckles and increase the support for independence.

agreed, but all parts of the uk had a vote on brexit

 

[dad_of_jon]

Yet again we've been had broken promises been lied to / misled by politician x / party y and we are still surprised. I suppose we need to choose the least deceitful. I remember the lib dems stance on university tuition fees, that went out the window in their rush to jump into bed with the conservatives. Fortunately they got a kicking at the following election, hopefully because of that broken promise.

 

[foxy]

Well the people of Scotland were told the way to remain in the EU was to remain in the UK. Then 2 years later the people of Scotland indicated a desire to remain in the EU but were taken out due to the fundamental way in which the UK works as a whole. Many people in Scotland including the SNP see that as a democratic deficit, where fundamentally the people of Scotland don't get what they vote for (see also; Tory govt). On that basis, they continue to campaign for votes on the basis of a referendum, and they continue to get them. The other parties continue to be rejected.

So let's make it simpler.

On what basis should a referendum be granted?

On the basis which the second referendum was agreed upon buy Sturgeon and Salmond. A generation away.

I think the UK has far bigger problems to solve. The GDP is abysmal, and no light at the end of the tunnel. Will Scotland as a separate entity be any better off? I have my doubts about that.

 

[MrJay83]

On the basis which the second referendum was agreed upon buy Sturgeon and Salmond. A generation away.

I think the UK has far bigger problems to solve. The GDP is abysmal, and no light at the end of the tunnel. Will Scotland as a separate entity be any better off? I have my doubts about that.

Having lived in Nippys constituency for two years I hope Scotland would be spared her complete control of the country.

 

[YeastFace]

Well why doesn't Germany or France go back to the state system? They united long after the UK did. A vote was taken, adhere to the vote, that is democracy. Sure have another vote, but at least give another generation the chance.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you but Germany do have a state system. It's literally a federation of states. But, like the US there is no mechanism to constitutionally secede.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Having lived in Nippys constituency for two years I hope Scotland would be spared her complete control of the country.

That would be down to the electorate to decide. The SNP word lose their entire MO, and there would be space for parties of all shades to have an opportunity. I find it bizarre when I hear people saying that they don't want to be ruled by the SNP. They do realise that they'd get to vote in elections post-independence right?

 

[Brew_DD2]

On the basis which the second referendum was agreed upon buy Sturgeon and Salmond. A generation away

Fallacy. Can show me the piece of legislation that explicitly states a necessary passage of time before another referendum can be held?

I'll save you the time. You can't.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Will Scotland as a separate entity be any better off? I have my doubts about that.

How Scotland may perform independently isn't really relevant to the OP's question.

In a union of consent, should Scotland be able to decide when it holds a vote on the continuation of the Union? If not, why not? And what does it mean for the nature of that Union.