Electric cars.

[MrJay83]

I agree, currently it makes far more sense to put your electricity directly into a car rather than converting it to hydrogen first.

There's room for both. People forget that around 7-10% of electricity is lost from where it enters the grid to your home. Then there's losses in your home, EV charger and charging your batteries (I'm not trying to say Hydrogen is more efficient).
I seen a video yesterday where Teslas, when plugged in, had to heat the batteries before they could charge on cold days. Some wouldn't charge after a day of this.
My dad just got a Volkswagen ID4 and I found the driving experience very weird (first go in a EV). I'm holding out for fuel cells.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Persuade us plebs to go electric (insert whatever reason you like) then just don't build the infrastructure or more cunningly do it so cheaply it doesn't work, those who need a charge whilst out can't take the risk of not being able to get one and then don't bother or only stay local to their area. Local travel only for the plebs in future.

Now you are getting nearer the real truth restriction of movement.

 

[Stan's Brew]

Now you are getting nearer the real truth restriction of movement.

Exactlly this, not just through restriction of electrical energy for charging (via smart meter), EVs can be controlled remotely via the internet, your EV can be switch on and off remotely.

You will own nothing and be happy - or in this case you will pay to own nothing and you will be made to feel happy through propagandised messaging (15 minute cities anyone?).

Is this the biggest threat to our freedom? Maybe not, but it's high on the list.

 

[Stu's Brews]

EVs can be controlled remotely via the internet, your EV can be switch on and off remotely

Feasibly, yes technology does allow for that but it is not specific to EVs.

Additionally OEMs have to meet cybersecurity legislative requirements to prevent this from happening.

https://www.iso.org/standard/70918....ts,including their components and interfaces.

 

[Rodcx500z]

This is a tongue in cheek post so don't take it to serious, HGV hydrogen refuelling stations to be built in South West following major deal while we all drive round in our little town cars

 

[Stan's Brew]

There really isn't a great many. A handful of outliers that have very little in the way of evidence, swimming against the tsunami of evidence of man made changes.

Despite the long history of governments lying to us about just about any subject they present to us, people will blindly believe them. You are indeed in the majority, as it always has been throughout history.

 

[Stu's Brews]

This is a tongue in cheek post so don't take it to serious, HGV hydrogen refuelling stations to be built in South West following major deal while we all drive round in our little town cars

There is actually some logic behind that though. HGVs cover a distance that is currently too high for EV ranges so it's an application where hydrogen is much more viable. It's almost certain that HGVs will be the first vehicles to see wide-spread adoption of hydrogen. It may then transfer over to passenger vehicles.

 

[Stan's Brew]

Feasibly, yes technology does allow for that but it is not specific to EVs.

Additionally OEMs have to meet cybersecurity legislative requirements to prevent this from happening.

https://www.iso.org/standard/70918....ts,including their components and interfaces.

I don't mean control by an unauthorised party or hacking of EV, charging infrastructure, plugs and sockets - although this is also a concerning and growing threat.

Hackers and malicious actors aren't that bothered about 'saving the planet', they would rather harvest your credit card details from the charging point. Having said that, there are ideologically driven eco-terrorists who would rather you didn't breathe to save the planet, so there is that new emerging threat.

The main threat is from your government, having the ability to switch off your transport options at their will. Just as they have the ability to manipulate the information on the internet now, monitor, track and control the data you see on your mobile phone, track your location, listen into your Alexa devices and mobile phone and cameras. They have the ability to control EVs, charging points, smart meters, all from the comfort of a heated and air-conditioned central office located anywhere on the planet.

Given what is happening in Oxford and Canterbury with their 15 minute cities, one of the next steps will be to restrict the mileage you can drive in your EV, then either pay additional fees to drive further or once you have reached your mileage limit, the vehicle is switched off until the meter clicks around to the point when you are allowed to drive again - the possibilities for control are endless.

 

[Stu's Brews]

The main threat is from your government, having the ability to switch off your transport options at their will.

They do not have that ability. Governments have no direct access to a vehicle's software systems.

Please stop spreading unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

If you have some actual evidence of a concern about EVs then by all means share it.

 

[MrJay83]

They do not have that ability. Governments have no direct access to a vehicle's software systems.

Until they pass legislation to have that ability. I've no doubt that special powers will be created for a multitude of non tinfoil hat wearing reasons (example: reducing peak load energy consumption, adverse weather, etc.)

 

[Stu's Brews]

Until they pass legislation to have that ability. I've no doubt that special powers will be created for a multitude of non tinfoil hat wearing reasons (example: reducing peak load energy consumption, adverse weather, etc.)

There is nothing on any legislative roadmap at the current time for anything like this to be implemented.

 

[MrJay83]

Give it time. Like I said... I've no doubt that it will happen. Doesn't have to be for nefarious reasons. It actually makes sense for them to have the ability to do so.

 

[Stan's Brew]

They do not have that ability. Governments have no direct access to a vehicle's software systems.
Please stop spreading unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.
If you have some actual evidence of a concern about EVs then by all means share it.

Like they don't have the ability to access your mobile phone?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/the-nsa-files

 

[gavp1979]

This thread is hilarious, in didn't think that anything could beat a 30 minute boil thread but this one has certainly got a section of people riled the most surprising thing for me is that governments can automatically switch your car off purely because it's an EV Even modern ICE cars are heavily computerized so if they really did want to restrict movements these could also theoretically be disabled ... If such a function was to be developed by the manufacturer at their own cost and then this was exposed to the wicked government

 

[Stu's Brews]

Like they don't have the ability to access your mobile phone?

We aren't talking about mobile phones. I'm an engineer that works in the automotive industry. I can tell you with pretty high confidence that the government do not have any means of interfacing with a vehicle's software systems.

 

[Stan's Brew]

So if low level 'joe hacker' can access charge points, what do you think state level actors can do with EV systems (without legislation allowing them to)

https://futurism.com/the-byte/ev-chargers-vulnerable-hacking

 

[Stan's Brew]

They do not have that ability. Governments have no direct access to a vehicle's software systems.
Please stop spreading unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.
If you have some actual evidence of a concern about EVs then by all means share it.

Why not provide evidence that state level access is not a capability?

 

[Stu's Brews]

Why not provide evidence that state level access is not a capability?

Because I can't go around sharing the intellectual property of the company I work for.

What would I need to show yo to prove that is the case? The software code that controls the system? Would you even be able to interpret it to ensure that what I was saying is true?

 

[Stan's Brew]

We aren't talking about mobile phones. I'm an engineer that works in the automotive industry. I can tell you with pretty high confidence that the government do not have any means of interfacing with a vehicle's software systems.

Because I can't go around sharing the intellectual property of the company I work for.
What would I need to show yo to prove that is the case? The software code that controls the system? Would you even be able to interpret it to ensure that what I was saying is true?

If you have access to the code, then how many other developers have access to the code?

Have all developers been vetted to determine their suitability to program the code and to do so with trust and integrity, without implementing back doors? Who is to say that some of these developers have not been placed into industry by governments in order to work the code to their advantage?

None of these questions can be answered of course, but we should be living in a zero-trust environment, I would not trust anything to do with computer systems in vehicles given what we know has been happening with mobile phones and the internet since they were invented.

 

[Stu's Brews]

If you have access to the code, then how many other developers have access to the code?

Have all developers been vetted to determine their suitability to program the code and to do so with trust and integrity, without implementing back doors? Who is to say that some of these developers have not been placed into industry by governments in order to work the code to their advantage?

None of these questions can be answered of course, but we should be living in a zero-trust environment, I would not trust anything to do with computer systems in vehicles given what we know has been happening with mobile phones and the internet since they were invented.

Without going into exhaustive detail as this has gone way off topic now.

Access to code is tightly controlled in any organisation that produces software, only those needed to work on the code itself will have access. Engineers are vetted as part of their interview process, there are also code review processes and a whole host of testing and validation before any code enters the public domain.

For the government to have the ability to control all vehicles on the road, there would need to be a clearly defined interface protocol that they could use. That isn't the work of a couple of rogue engineers to setup. It would have to be a coordinated effort across all OEMs and all global governments. That is not happening.