Electric cars.

[gavp1979]

As unlikely as Israeli state sanctioned spyware company Pegasus covertly infiltrating hundreds if not thousands of mobile phones of politicians, high ranking officials and all sorts of other people across the globe? Pegasus was sold to a wide range of governments and went undetected for quite some time.

It remains a fact that anything with a network connection, especially something connected to the internet can be exploited regardless of the cybersecurity guards put in place - for high value targets it is state level actors that do this, law enforcement and intelligence agencies will always have a way to gather intelligence on their targets regardless of security, EVs are just another tool to be exploited.

At pleb level it is more about tracking usage, location and gathering data for advertising and various other metrics, unless you are an activist/criminal/politician/someone to be manipulated of some kind it is unlikely that ordinary plebs will be targeted by the state.

But we should be concerned about the capabilities that big tech and governments have to monitor and control us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware)

You seem to be moving the goal posts, your initial statement was that if @Stu's Brews had access to the source code how many other people had access and could therefore add a back door, you have been told that would be very unlikely due to standard industry practices so have suddenly changed subject and started talking about spyware

 

[Stan's Brew]

I think there are far too many people out there who incorrectly equate distrust of everything, to critical thinking.

I can imagine the noughties at just the same stage that mobile phones were being introduced, that the phone fanboi's would defend them as marvels of technology without any clue about the privacy risk or impact on society, social media the same.

I guess we are at a similar stage in the evolution of EVs, given the defence of EVs with little thought for the impact (consequences) they might have.

History repeats.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The main threat is from your government, having the ability to switch off your transport options at their will. Just as they have the ability to manipulate the information on the internet now, monitor, track and control the data you see on your mobile phone, track your location, listen into your Alexa devices and mobile phone and cameras. They have the ability to control EVs, charging points, smart meters, all from the comfort of a heated and air-conditioned central office located anywhere on the planet.

 

[Stan's Brew]

You seem to be moving the goal posts, your initial statement was that if @Stu's Brews had access to the source code how many other people had access and could therefore add a back door, you have been told that would be very unlikely due to standard industry practices so have suddenly changed subject and started talking about spyware

Not at all, I stand by my comments that state sponsored actors could infiltrate the developer departments, especially in the 3rd party software manufacturing or chip manufacturing stages where it is likely less controls might be applied.

Governments go to great lengths and lots of expense to ensure that the above doesn't happen, industry does not (to the same extent). And governments will not lock themselves out of being able to exploit such technologies either by over regulating them.

 

[tigertim]

EVs are just another tool to be exploited.

As has been mentioned previously, any communications technology is completely independent of the drivetrain so a vehicle with an ICE is just as likely to shop you to the feds as an EV. Don't confuse a specific type of drivetrain with your concerns of espionage. If your concerns were to be well-founded, this technology would already be in use in every modern petrol and diesel car.

Insinuating that a type of car which happens to be driven by a battery and an electric motor is the chance the government have been waiting for in order to restrict and track us is insane.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

We aren't talking about mobile phones. I'm an engineer that works in the automotive industry. I can tell you with pretty high confidence that the government do not have any means of interfacing with a vehicle's software systems.

Please don't introduce facts into the thread the tin foil hat wearers wont know what to do with them.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Well some of the cheapest EVs on the market (MG4, 5 and ZS) are capable of doing north of 300 miles. The ranges are getting longer and the prices are coming down.

You will get no were near 300miles over a 12 month period, the optimum temp for an ev battery to perform at it's best is 21.5c, below 15c range drops off and in the depths of winter you would be doing well to get 150 miles, 2022 was the uks warmest year on record the uk average temp was 10c,

 

[Brew_DD2]

You will get no were near 300miles over a 12 month period, the optimum temp for an ev battery to perform at it's best is 21.5c, below 15c range drops off and in the depths of winter you would be doing well to get 150 miles, 2022 was the uks warmest year on record the uk average temp was 10c,

I said "capable of", and they are. A friend of mine has a ZS and regularly manages over 300 miles on a charge.

 

[gavp1979]

Not at all, I stand by my comments that state sponsored actors could infiltrate the developer departments, especially in the 3rd party software manufacturing or chip manufacturing stages where it is likely less controls might be applied.

Governments go to great lengths and lots of expense to ensure that the above doesn't happen, industry does not (to the same extent). And governments will not lock themselves out of being able to exploit such technologies either by over regulating them.

Given the new evidence that you have introduced in that clearly made up to fit your agenda scenario I think I must concede and bow down to your superior knowledge on how EV's are aiding global espionage

 

[Rodcx500z]

Please don't introduce facts into the thread the tin foil hat wearers wont know what to do with them.

So you would willing fork out between 30 and 50 grand for a car that only performs when it's warm, right were is my tin hat, and i thought dieselgate was bad these guys are doing it openly while laughing

 

[Stu's Brews]

So you would willing fork out between 30 and 50 grand for a car that only performs when it's warm, right were is my tin hat, and i thought dieselgate was bad these guys are doing it openly while laughing

Just to put some facts behind what you are saying so people can understand the impact of temperature on battery performance:
https://www.rivusgroup.co.uk/effect..., temperature,EV Winter Driving tips article.

 

[gavp1979]

Out if interest (and a vague attempt to get this thread back on track), how many people in this thread actually own or have owned an EV? I don't and was hoping my next car would be but looks like I might need to go petrol again for my next one

 

[dad_of_jon]

I'm afraid I just don't see this at all. You can strap on a pair of shoes or grab your bicycle and go pretty much anywhere you want at any time for free and, as long as you leave your phone (and your "COVID jab geolocation chip") at home, nobody will be any the wiser.

Why would "they" care how far we travel?

That's fine TT, your phone is a device and to my knowledge there isn't the technology to shrink a chip into a vaccine dose and through a needle so that's not happened.

They care how far we travel for two reasons. One we use up natural resources they want for themselves, Two we clog up the infrastructure, Three they'd rather keep us lower forms of life away from their space and avoid interacting with us lower crasses. Problem is in a free market economy some of us plebs have certain skill sets that allow us to earn large amounts and mingle with the hoi-poloi much to their indignance.

I find Switzerland to be a curious mix, I've stayed the night on the top of a mountain and had a wonderfull time. Wasn't too expensive , yet a similar mountain would have cost £1000's a night it had a heli-pad so maybe I found one that caters for those that are good at google-fu.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Out if interest (and a vague attempt to get this thread back on track), how many people in this thread actually own or have owned an EV? I don't and was hoping my next car would be but looks like I might need to go petrol again for my next one

I actually don't (may come as a surprise to some) as when I last purchased a vehicle 4 and a half years ago there wasn't a financially viable option available. However, I fully expect my next car will be electric.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I said "capable of", and they are. A friend of mine has a ZS and regularly manages over 300 miles on a charge.

Range isn’t really an issue. My wife and I did the NC500 road trip in our EV in May. First we drove from Essex to Inverness, a little under 600 miles total, we stopped three times on the way to charge. Charge times were 12 minutes, 16 minutes and 13 minutes. Or, just enough time for a wee and to grab a coffee.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Out if interest (and a vague attempt to get this thread back on track), how many people in this thread actually own or have owned an EV? I don't and was hoping my next car would be but looks like I might need to go petrol again for my next one

I have one. Love it. Just book a test drive in one.

 

[tigertim]

So you would willing fork out between 30 and 50 grand for a car that only performs when it's warm, right were is my tin hat, and i thought dieselgate was bad these guys are doing it openly while laughing

I'd fork out the amount of money required to purchase a car which fits my needs.

These debates always seem to bring out those who seem to need to do 300+ miles every day, where they can't afford to stop for a 30 minute charge during what would likely be a 5+ hour trip in the UK.

I ran EVs for 18 months and did about 1700 miles a month so I have a reasonably balanced real-world experience. I currently own a 2009 1.2 Polo because it cost £100 and I (thankfully) barely drive anywhere these days.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I said "capable of", and they are. A friend of mine has a ZS and regularly manages over 300 miles on a charge.

Taken from an MG forum,
f the minimum distance you need to travel in winter to reach a charger is 95miles, then do not get the ZS.
You will get 95miles out of a full charge in winter, BUT if you're doing a 60/70mph journey and want your heating on full, it is not really safe to do, if that charger is out of service etc you will be scr3wed.
The above is based on a battery at 100% state of health too. You need to think about when you want to make that journey after your car has done 20k miles and you have lost 5% battery. Of course in the future they'll be better charging infrastructure so hopefully you won't have to go 95miles before reaching a charger.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Chippy the point i was making, i never said they don't work i said the range drops off in cold weather but you ignored that

 

[dad_of_jon]

Well some of the cheapest EVs on the market (MG4, 5 and ZS) are capable of doing north of 300 miles. The ranges are getting longer and the prices are coming down.

fair enough

mg zs long range - 273 miles official figures - £33K
suzuki vitara - 380 miles - my average figure - £22K
The new vitara does a bit more mpg than my car (2019) but the cost is for a new vitara so probably 400 miles with the new model.

So for those less well off buying an EV often means second hand market about 90 miles in warm temps for an 8 year old leaf.