Electric cars.

[old dog new tricks]

If you could go back in time would you still have gone BEV?

Yes would have still got the Kona , but would have kept my diesel focus as well it had bigger boot being a 2016 cheaper tax and over 600 miles range.

I like the Kona now I am on Intelligent Octopus so cheap to charge, for day to day its great, sadly my other half doesn't drive if she did I would absolutely have a pre 2017 ICE or Hybrid to make sure had all bases covered.

I took the Kona on 4 year deal coming up for a year my thinking was 2 years away from the ICE ban when this deal ends it will either be worth nonthign as outdated fine hand it back or buy it cheap. If worth a lot then great good deposit for the next generation see whats out there in my price range I like to buy 3 or 4 years old to avoid the huge depreciation, so for me that seeing what is out there now and what it looks like in 3 years time.

I have the home charger no so likely next one be BEV or Hybrid - no idea what the ICE ban will do to prices wait and see

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I passed several petrol stations, but even if i did not my old focus could cover over 600 miles on a tank so never worried about it.

Whereas I'm used to 260 miles to a tank in petrol cars and survived just fine, but now have one that does 400 miles and it's more than enough - I could drive the length of Britain with just one fuel stop. Survey suggest that 90% of people don't do more than 200 miles in a day.

Ironically last place we went had a 7kw charger but was turned off had been for 14 months. That would have been perfect left overnight back up to 200 miles easy.

Of course petrol stations also have outages.... Whereas since November EV charger operators have had a legal obligation for >99% availability across their networks, on pain of a fine up to £10k per charger. I suspect it will be getting fixed soon...

Good point I had the granny charger but the Kona had enough range to get back just, so in future might need to try that at lodges not as easy at hotels.

So even with 2020-era technology, in a remote area, you still had enough range? And even if you hadn't, you had a backup option that would have seen you through? Surely this tale is an argument for how 2020-era technology was already good enough in the real world?

Just be grateful you're not doing the Highlands in an LPG car like a friend used to do regularly - fill up at Skiach and then get back there on fumes as almost nowhere else had LPG (and it's pretty much being phased out now to make room for more EV chargers).

Some parts of the country are well served for charging but massive holes when you look at some areas of Scotland. 7kw chargers are so slow its not practical to sit in the car that length or if lucky enough to have a cafe or someplace near by an hour or 2 maybe, but last 2 trips this not been possible. There is a real lack of fast, for me 50kw is more than enough 40 mins gets me to 80% my car only goes to 77kw anyways so no gain for me gong higher) in more remote areas, ironically in cities and built up areas there are loads.

Of course there's more chargers in places with big populations, for the same reason that there's more petrol stations. But at least those kind of remote places have plenty of offroad parking, so there's room for either home chargers or granny charging.

As for VW the Buzz has been a massive sales flop and the ID 7 got withdrawn in several markets for poor sales, I think the days are numbered for traditional car makers they have been slow to respond and not been good enough look the issues with the ID 3 quality wise.

I'll say again - VW are up 18% in the UK over last year. They may not have got everything right, but that's kinda how you get better. As I say - just compare their range (current and near-future) with the likes of Ford who are struggling massively in the UK.

As said I have a BEV I like it, it suits my day to day needs but sometimes feel restricted and would like a range extender or hybrid with a real EV range but UK government policy will not allow this.

Again - not true, they still get points towards their quota from hybrids. Nobody is banning hybrids at present.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Whereas I'm used to 260 miles to a tank in petrol cars and survived just fine, but now have one that does 400 miles and it's more than enough - I could drive the length of Britain with just one fuel stop. Survey suggest that 90% of people don't do more than 200 miles in a day. - Agreed day to day i only do about 100 miles but I like to use my Historic Scotland membership and go weekend trips my old diesel was never an issue fill up on way out could get any place and back. What I am saying is right now I am not able to do that with my BEV might be able to in the future.

Of course petrol stations also have outages.... Whereas since November EV charger operators have had a legal obligation for >99% availability across their networks, on pain of a fine up to £10k per charger. I suspect it will be getting fixed soon... sadly not the case in lots of areas of Scotland as the onus is on the owner not operator to fix previously chargeplace Scotland did this now its owners many are now taking them offline. the chargers at this venue no longer show up on apps etc as they no longer supported and park owner has no plans to play for repairs. In 29 years of ICE driving I have never ran out of fuel even during fuel crisis, the sheer number of fossil fuel stations kinda negates this argument and they are far and wide across the country an established network that took decades to get where it currently is.

So even with 2020-era technology, in a remote area, you still had enough range? And even if you hadn't, you had a backup option that would have seen you through? Surely this tale is an argument for how 2020-era technology was already good enough in the real world? I chose my BEV carefully for this reason, but no we went out in friends diesel car during the day as he filled up on the way, if if had just be and my partner we would have to alter our plans to schedule a charge stop

Just be grateful you're not doing the Highlands in an LPG car like a friend used to do regularly - fill up at Skiach and then get back there on fumes as almost nowhere else had LPG (and it's pretty much being phased out now to make room for more EV chargers). - Choose your vehicle based on infrastructure then i waited until now to change to EV as simply the range was not there at my price point

Of course there's more chargers in places with big populations, for the same reason that there's more petrol stations. But at least those kind of remote places have plenty of offroad parking, so there's room for either home chargers or granny charging. - useful if a resident not so helpful if a visitor

I'll say again - VW are up 18% in the UK over last year. They may not have got everything right, but that's kinda how you get better. As I say - just compare their range (current and near-future) with the likes of Ford who are struggling massively in the UK. - Agree VW are one of the better players but they have admitted they overspent on R&D and are suffering,that well documented as it fact they admit they rushed the ID series to market. I stand by the fact that once bit part players have become stronger due to their strategies and direction of travel. Also the wave of Chinese BEVs are due to hit soon and the price point will give current manufactures a very hard time, the UK Gov and the silly £40k tax also plays into this


Again - not true, they still get points towards their quota from hybrids. Nobody is banning hybrids at present. Erm hybrids are not excluded from ICe ban 2030?

Not looking to fight or disagree just giving my personal experience as I say I have a BEV I waited until i could afford one with decent range, its very good but the infrastructure needs improve and lets not kid on the price of public charging is outrage its the same electricity you get in your house for a fraction of the cost its just pure profiteering both government and business. This is one of the big blockers to those who cant home charge no one has offered a viable solution to that yet

 

[Rodcx500z]

one for hybrid owners

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I hate this kind of journalism a Nissan Leaf is not a hybrid and you are not paying £12.000 for a full replacement battery pack why does he compare the two cars? (see true cost below)

What sort of car journalist is this?
Actual quote from the video -

"I believe you can repair the hybrid battery i think you can just replace the damaged cells, i think"

A little information from someone that it would seem knows more about hybrids and this guy, they are not the worst of both worlds, for those who cannot charge at home they are the best (just my opinion)
All the models i have researched have tiny 12v batteries fitted as they only power the 12v systems hybrids don't have a starter motor so no need for huge cranking amps to get the car started, these tiny batteries go flat fairly quickly if you do not use the car regularly so if you are going to buy one take it out for a short run a couple of times a week or sit in "READY" mode for a while which will do the same job.


Cost of replacing the Nissan LEAF’s Batteries DROPS 90% in seven years (2018)
The cost of replacing the batteries in a Nissan LEAF has dropped to just £2,000, thanks to a new Nissan scheme to offer refabricated batteries in Japan.
The price of batteries for electric cars has been such a big part of the cost of an EV that, ignoring range issues, electric cars have struggled to compete against ICE cars.
But as economies of scale – and advances in technology – start to make their mark, battery costs for EVs continue to drop making EVs more affordable, more profitable for car makers and more appealing on the used market.
A good example is the cost of a replacement battery pack for the Nissan LEAF, which cost £20,000 just seven years ago, but which had dropped to £5,000 three years later.
But now, as Nissan in Japan launches a refrabricated battery replacement option with 4R Energy Corp, the price of getting a refabricated 24kWh battery pack drops to just £2,000 – a 90 per cent drop in cost in just seven years.
You can still buy new battery packs from Nissan, with prices (in Japan) for the 24kWh at £4,300, 30kWh at £5,300 and the 40kWh at £5,450. But if, as Nissan are planning, the refabricated battery range is extended to all battery pack sizes, then even a refabricated 40kWh battery pack should cost around £2,500.
https://www.carsuk.net/cost-of-replacing-the-nissan-leafs-batteries-drops-90-in-seven-years/

 

[Alastair70]

C’mon now Chippy. This thread has been running long enough, you must have realised that when someone posts a ridiculous claim with only a YouTube video that they probably didn’t watch to the end as evidence, then it’s only ever going to be a load of load of borse hollocks.

 

[Rodcx500z]

At the end of the day land rover quoted him £21'000 to replace the battery. and yeah i did watch to the end he got it fixed for for £6,000 he did make a loss but kept his reputation as an honest guy, manufactures will not repair batterys and will not give a date on time scale to repair watch the video to the end

 

[Rodcx500z]

C’mon now Chippy. This thread has been running long enough, you must have realised that when someone posts a ridiculous claim with only a YouTube video that they probably didn’t watch to the end as evidence, then it’s only ever going to be a load of load of borse hollocks.

Did you watch till the end i don't think so, this guy is a well respected dealer

 

[Alastair70]

Did you watch till the end i don't think so, this guy is a well respected dealer

C‘mon now Rod, This thread has been running long enough that you should realise I don’t watch any of the YouTube videos! They are not a credible source.

I’m not making an ad hominem comment about YouTube. I’m just highlighting the inherent bias that can’t be avoided when the majority of content creators are creating content for their own personal gain. The alternative I prefer is to go back to the source and critically appraise it. And I‘ll be the first person to change my point of view in the face of a compelling argument.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If we're going on YouTube videos, here's Autotrader talking to a guy who repairs EV batteries for a living, he quotes an example where he would charge £5k to repair where Range Rover would charge £22k + labour for a new pack, and £5.2k to overhaul a Tesla pack where the cheapest option from Tesla is a battery exchange at £14k.

 

[Rodcx500z]

C‘mon now Rod, This thread has been running long enough that you should realise I don’t watch any of the YouTube videos! They are not a credible source.

I’m not making an ad hominem comment about YouTube. I’m just highlighting the inherent bias that can’t be avoided when the majority of content creators are creating content for their own personal gain. The alternative I prefer is to go back to the source and critically appraise it. And I‘ll be the first person to change my point of view in the face of a compelling argument.

No range rover are lazy and are ripping their customers off, they could easily repair these batterys

 

[JockyBrewer]

Word gets around about things like that.

I’m pretty sure most manufacturers will follow Nissan’s move to have a cheaper swap program and/or maintainable batteries as consumers won’t put up with the risk.

Something like the EU may also step in and mandate that sort of thing too.

 

[old dog new tricks]

i think its also worth mentioning that mainstream BEV now carry long warranties on the batteries, the Leaf was a flawed design having no thermal management, that is one of the keys to battery life stable temperatures.

I agree the repair of batteries is niche trade and needs to grow, the EU mandates that white goods should be repairable should also be widened to apply to EV batteries.

Manufacturers should bear a responsibility for the batteries they sell with their cars they should offer repair or licensed repairs.

It should also be mandated a SOH certificate is issued with every BEV and hybrid.