Electric cars.

[Chippy_Tea]

Personally I think we are all too hell bent on the evils of CO2 and tend to forget there are far more harmful things that come out of the exhaust pipe of an ICE

A very good point.

Vehicles started using diesel engines over 90 years ago and its only recently manufacturers moved to using AdBlue to try to clean up their act, the majority on the roads today cannot use it so it'll be years before these polluting vehicles are taken off the road, old diesel cars, trucks, busses, trains and ships will continue to spew out these nasties for the foreseeable future.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Personally I think we are all too hell bent on the evils of CO2 and tend to forget there are far more harmful things that come out of the exhaust pipe of an ICE

I posted a bit of an explanation about this earlier in the thread but am too lazy to go find it now.

CO2 gets used as the 'buzzword' for all emissions as that is what is used in the equivalency formula for comparing anything that generates greenhouse gases. So even if it's actually NOx that is being generated it will be converted into a CO2 equivalent number and added to the total.

 

[Rodcx500z]

We are going to run out of fossil fuel over the next 50 years we need to replace ICE cars with something Hydrogen would have been the better option yet no one asks why the decision was made to go battery rather than hydrogen all those years ago (hydrogen cars have been around 20+ years) so here we are stuck with EV's the charging infrastructure will improve as more people buy them and in the future Hydrogen or something else will take over from battery, by then i will be long gone.

They are making big money out of lithium, hydrogen can wait until lithium runs out, carbon lithium hydrogen it's a transition phase, all based around maximum profits for the big boys and tax for the government, there is no proof of this yet though, but i bet it's not far wrong

 

[Stu's Brews]

HYdrogen was supplied to all houses as a fuel in town gas. Many cars run on methane that reaches refuelling stations compressed on delivery lorries.

True although hydrogen fuel for cars is quite a different thing to town gas. Methane is a good point though.

 

[Rodcx500z]

This is a good site Carmakers Jumping into Hydrogen Car Market - Green Hydrogen News

 

[dad_of_jon]

Great article

The photos of queues waiting to charge were taken at the busiest time of the year on the roads and coincided a national rail strike. That wasn't the norm. Besides, for every photo the media published showing queues there were dozens of others posted on EV owners forums pages of people sitting charging at almost deserted charge points.

yup the old MSM fear mongering again. like a photo of empty shelves at a supermarket to insinuate a food shortage. when the shelves had been cleared for seasonal stock. sure you get pinch points popping up here and there from time to time but it doesn't mean the WHOLE country is effected. whipped up by their own articles to become a self-fulfulling prophecy.

Like my local garage didn't have E5 fuel - I just went to another garage to get some. I recall the tanker turns up on a tuesday and it had been a busy xmas weekend hence why the e5 had gone by monday. I don't put that diluted E10 **** in my car.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I am not surprised to see Toyota leading the hybrid section i am definitely getting one next, the drop in diesel sales is quite a shock i was expecting it to be low but not that low.

 

[AlBrew]

I guess that's one way to describe it. The issues @tigertim mentions are valid as well so it's a bit more complex. Hydrogen will come in the future but the technology just needs more time to mature. Electric is the best option we have until that happens.

I agree, currently it makes far more sense to put your electricity directly into a car rather than converting it to hydrogen first.

If a time comes when electricity becomes "too cheap to meter" then the energy density of hydrogen could win in some use cases.

For low maintenance, convenient, personal travel, I think batteries (in whatever future from they take) will still have a place.

 

[tigertim]

So even if it's actually NOx that is being generated it will be converted into a CO2 equivalent number and added to the total.

Slightly off topic, but refrigerants are graded in a similar manner with a GWP (global warming potential) value. It’s relative to CO2 which has a value of 1.

So if we take R134a which is used in a lot of vehicle air conditioning systems, it has a GWP of 1430 which means a kilogramme of R134a released into the atmosphere has an equivalent global warming effect as 1430kg of CO2.

So every time a car crashes and loses its refrigerant charge of ~750g (or a clueless mechanic illegally vents it to the atmosphere), it does the same damage as around 1200kg of CO2.

People associate refrigerants with ozone layer damage but that is mostly history thanks to the Montreal Protocol. Global warming is the newer challenge.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Personally I think we are all too hell bent on the evils of CO2 and tend to forget there are far more harmful things that come out of the exhaust pipe of an ICE

yup co2 is what we breath out it's a natural gas. less people = less co2
plants love it though.
it took a while for me why talking to your plants (closely mind) makes them bigger and healthier

 

[AlBrew]

This is a good site Carmakers Jumping into Hydrogen Car Market - Green Hydrogen News

From that;
"Honda is presently marketing the Clarity hydrogen-powered vehicle. It intends to mass produce the sports utility vehicle (SUV) CR-V using hydrogen starting in 2024. By allowing users to charge the batteries of the CR-hydrogen V’s version with electricity, similar to an electric car, it hopes to set itself apart from competing models."

This hybrid approach sounds sensible, assuming it doesn't add too much additional cost. Charge it like an EV when you can for optimal cost reduction or use the hydrogen if you can't. This sounds like a fuel cell version so it's going to need batteries anyway.

 

[Stan's Brew]

Where is the evidence that it has been manipulated?

We can play that game all day long...

You started it

 

[Stan's Brew]

Where is the evidence the so called facts you have posted have not been manipulated?

If you are going to use that argument every time someone posts something that disproves everything you have said in the thread we may as well stop discussing it now.

Agreed it's pointless and then supposed facts only then get fact checked

 

[Stan's Brew]

So for those in this thread that believe in the green agenda and global warming you believe that your government is telling you the truth - on what basis and who is holding your government to account to prove what they are saying is true, what convinces you that it is true?

 

[Brew_DD2]

So for those in this thread that believe in the green agenda and global warming you believe that your government is telling you the truth - on what basis and who is holding your government to account to prove what they are saying is true, what convinces you that it is true?

No. I believe in the countless climate scientists out there that understand this stuff far better than any of us possibly do. I don't believe what they say blindly, but I accept that when there is a near consensus from people who base their hypotheses on empirical data that is rigourously collected, then they are likely correct (or certainly closer to the being correct than people who choose to cherry pick statistics despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary).

 

[Stan's Brew]

No. I believe in the countless climate scientists out there that understand this stuff far better than any of us possibly do. I don't believe what they say blindly, but I accept that when there is a near consensus from people who base their hypotheses on empirical data that is rigourously collected, then they are likely correct (or certainly closer to the being correct than people who choose to cherry pick statistics despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary).

But there isn't consensus there are a great many academics and scientists that disagree.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Whilst out cycling today (I deliberately have no use car days) a thought occurred to me.

Persuade us plebs to go electric (insert whatever reason you like) then just don't build the infrastructure or more cunningly do it so cheaply it doesn't work, those who need a charge whilst out can't take the risk of not being able to get one and then don't bother or only stay local to their area. Local travel only for the plebs in future.

Also I note most of the chargers in car parks in my my area aren't as close to facilities as disabled parking spaces. This seems like unintended discrimination to me.

Finally given the way EV's burn (lithium ion) there should be more space between them when parked in car parks to avoid setting off a chain reaction. As ol John Cadogan says petrol is a dangerous substance which we have been able to engineer a lot of the risks away. Our infratructure and procedures for dealing with a large concentration of EV's is in it's infancy. I drove an i3 in work and found it dangerously easy to go over 30 because well no gear change to remind you. It wasn't a bad car just not my cup of tea.

 

[Brew_DD2]

But there isn't consensus there are a great many academics and scientists that disagree.

There really isn't a great many. A handful of outliers that have very little in the way of evidence, swimming against the tsunami of evidence of man made changes.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Local travel only for the plebs in future

The latest generation of EVs can do 400 miles on a single charge. That doesn't really fit my definition of local.