Electric cars.

[Stan's Brew]

Not sure if you mis-read my post but I said I'd expect local authorities to fund it. Yes, that is ultimately from the taxpayer but it can become circular by using taxes recouped from things like Vehicle Excise Duty and Fuel Duty.

Or from council tax or general taxation, why shouldn't industry pay for it, they make enough profit?

Do you see what is happening here, I've said it before, all that is happening is that the funding of the energy infrastructure is being shifted from industry to the consumer through taxation, it's genius and consumers love it because they have been propagandised by the fallacy of green energy, a climate emergency, saving the planet or <insert latest green b*llsh!it buzzword>.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

based on the fallacy of green energy, a climate emergency, saving the planet or <insert latest green b*llsh!t buzzword>.

Do you agree that as shown below EV's are better for the planet than ICE cars?

We are going to run out of fossil fuel over the next 50 years we need to replace ICE cars with something Hydrogen would have been the better option yet no one asks why the decision was made to go battery rather than hydrogen all those years ago (hydrogen cars have been around 20+ years) so here we are stuck with EV's the charging infrastructure will improve as more people buy them and in the future Hydrogen or something else will take over from battery, by then i will be long gone.

 

[Stan's Brew]

Do you agree that as shown below EV's are better for the planet than ICE cars?

We are going to run out of fossil fuel over the next 50 years we need to replace ICE cars with something Hydrogen would have been the better option yet no one asks why the decision was made to go battery rather than hydrogen all those years ago (hydrogen cars have been around 20+ years) so here we are stuck with EV's the charging infrastructure will improve as more people buy them and in the future Hydrogen or something else will take over from battery, by then i will be long gone.

View attachment 80298

It depends on the definition of 'better for the planet' - if you are using CO2 as the yardstick then no, there is ample evidence of manipulation of data over a long period of time and the propaganda changed from global cooling and an ice age to global warming and desertification to just climate change because no-one would believe that they are just basing it on power, control, taxation and impoverishing the populace. All oppostion has been silenced and censored to avoid open debate, the 'science is settled' apparently.

Is it better for people to be paying high prices for energy, cars, windpower, solar, certainly not, it makes them poorer. What happens to these items when they are thrown into landfill, what about the energy used in their production.

What has happened to clean initiatives such as bluetec for diesel and clean coal, I thought we had solved the particulate issue using filtration and catalytic reactions?

 

[Stan's Brew]

Do you agree that as shown below EV's are better for the planet than ICE cars?

We are going to run out of fossil fuel over the next 50 years we need to replace ICE cars with something Hydrogen would have been the better option yet no one asks why the decision was made to go battery rather than hydrogen all those years ago (hydrogen cars have been around 20+ years) so here we are stuck with EV's the charging infrastructure will improve as more people buy them and in the future Hydrogen or something else will take over from battery, by then i will be long gone.

View attachment 80298

The ICCT is embedded in the green agenda, along with its partners, there is total bias and no balance.

 

[Stu's Brews]

The ICCT is embedded in the green agenda, along with its partners, there is total bias and no balance.

Do you have any evidence to support this?

 

[tigertim]

no one asks why the decision was made to go battery rather than hydrogen

Because after generation, compression, and transportation, hydrogen is woefully inefficient compared with a BEV. Hydrogen may well have uses in large vehicles, but it'll sadly never be a viable solution for passenger cars.

 

[Stan's Brew]

Do you have any evidence to support this?

https://theicct.org/initiatives-partnerships/

 

[Stan's Brew]

Do you have any evidence to support this?

Where is the evidence showing the debate and the balance?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It depends on the definition of 'better for the planet' - if you are using CO2 as the yardstick then no,

This clearly shows you are wrong.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Because after generation, compression, and transportation, hydrogen is woefully inefficient compared with a BEV. Hydrogen may well have uses in large vehicles, but it'll sadly never be a viable solution for passenger cars.

They have had many many years to sort this, this is a modern BMW 15 years ago they have had 15 years to get their act together but they went with battery.

 

[tigertim]

They have had many many years to sort this

But time doesn't resolve issues which exist in physics. Compressing the gaseous hydrogen into liquid form generates huge amounts of waste energy in heat and transporting the liquid hydrogen from generation to the car which then uses it also uses large amounts of energy.

Sure, there are losses in transfer over power lines and in the charging/discharging a battery, but they are many times less than those losses incurred with hydrogen.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a convenient liquid fuel such as hydrogen power our cars but, in terms of overall efficiency, the physics just don't add up as far as hydrogen is concerned.

 

[Stan's Brew]

This clearly shows you are wrong.

View attachment 80299

Where is the evidence showing that the data has not been manipulated?

 

[Stu's Brews]

Where is the evidence showing that the data has not been manipulated?

Where is the evidence that it has been manipulated?

We can play that game all day long...

 

[Stu's Brews]

They have had many many years to sort this, this is a modern BMW 15 years ago they have had 15 years to get their act together but they went with battery.

The biggest problem with hydrogen is the network needed to support refueling.

Electric is considerably easier to sort out.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Where is the evidence showing that the data has not been manipulated?

Where is the evidence the so called facts you have posted have not been manipulated?

If you are going to use that argument every time someone posts something that disproves everything you have said in the thread we may as well stop discussing it now.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a convenient liquid fuel such as hydrogen power our cars but, in terms of overall efficiency, the physics just don't add up as far as hydrogen is concerned.

The biggest problem with hydrogen is the network needed to support refueling.

So basically they took the easy option even though they must have known it was the wrong one.

 

[Stu's Brews]

So basically they took the easy option even though they must have known it was the wrong one.

I guess that's one way to describe it. The issues @tigertim mentions are valid as well so it's a bit more complex. Hydrogen will come in the future but the technology just needs more time to mature. Electric is the best option we have until that happens.

 

[tigertim]

So basically they took the easy option even though they must have known it was the wrong one.

I imagine they just looked at the facts. With a BEV, around 70-75% of the power makes it to the wheels whereas with hydrogen, around 25-30% of the power makes it to the wheels. So you'd need to generate (and the consumer would need to pay for) around three times the amount of power at source to drive the same distance. Time and technology maturity won't fix this unfortunately, it's just physics.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

It depends on the definition of 'better for the planet' - if you are using CO2 as the yardstick then no,

Personally I think we are all too hell bent on the evils of CO2 and tend to forget there are far more harmful things that come out of the exhaust pipe of an ICE

 

[Bernie]

The biggest problem with hydrogen is the network needed to support refueling.

Electric is considerably easier to sort out.

HYdrogen was supplied to all houses as a fuel in town gas. Many cars run on methane that reaches refuelling stations compressed on delivery lorries.