Electric cars.

[Leon103]

Well they could run a pipeline from antarctica to south America and use that job done and all problems sorted

Why use a pipe, just rely on gravity

 

[Leon103]

We have a suv and an estate. Suv does better mpg than the estate. The suv is a petrol hybrid though. Despite mercedes saying I can get high 60s I haven't had anywhere near this but do live in the country so don't have the roads to take advantage of it

 

[Stu's Brews]

We have a suv and an estate. Suv does better mpg than the estate. The suv is a petrol hybrid though. Despite mercedes saying I can get high 60s I haven't had anywhere near this but do live in the country so don't have the roads to take advantage of it

As you pretty much say, it's not a completely fair comparison as the SUV is a hybrid.

I can guarantee you (as it's literally part of my job) that if you keep everything the same but just make the car smaller and lighter (e.g. swapping an SUV body for a saloon or estate body) it will be more efficient.

 

[dad_of_jon]

The most basic counter argument is that families survived for years without SUVs by using saloon, estate or even hatchback vehicles.

But in a more reasoned argument, it's actually a bit of a fallacy that there is significantly more room in SUVs than there is in an equivalent saloon or estate.

They appear big from the outside but the interior compartments aren't all that much different. That's especially true in the case of 'crossover' SUVs which are essentially saloons or hatchbacks that have been put on stilts.

agreed suv's killed mpv's and estates. I a couple of 7 seater mpvs very practical. I'm on my 2nd suv a suzuki vitara - previously having a cx-5. the higher seating position in suv's and usually mpv's is better for my back. estate cars are a bit too low for me.

 

[Druncan]

We have been very lucky with vehicles. On our 2nd business van (Citroen 1.6D med 48mpg) that is our mainland car + MOT'd as vehicles on Tiree are exempt from MOT (- most held together with bailer twine and prayers,,,,) our Island car is a Toyota Yaris Verso 1.4D - costs next to nowt to run. We would have run it on vege oil but it's now more expensive than Derv,,,,

When it dies our replacement may be a Citroen Ami Top speed 28mph fine when max journey is 20 M and single track. Planning to power it from our solar PV's /battery system I'm installing.

 

[Leon103]

As you pretty much say, it's not a completely fair comparison as the SUV is a hybrid.

I can guarantee you (as it's literally part of my job) that if you keep everything the same but just make the car smaller and lighter (e.g. swapping an SUV body for a saloon or estate body) it will be more efficient.

Aerodynamics. I had the same vehicle in just a petrol version. Still better than my estate. All the extra battery gives me is a lot more power and speed.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Aerodynamics.

Definitely a significant part of the puzzle when it comes to efficiency (along with mass, parasitic energy consumption, tyre rolling resistance and driveline inefficiencies) but a car with a larger frontal area will be worse than a car with a small frontal area if they are both developed to achieve the same drag coefficient.

No particular reason why an estate car and an SUV can't both have a similarly low drag coefficient. I suspect that in the case of the two vehicles you are comparing the estate hasn't been particularly well developed for aerodynamic performance or there are other factors coming into play.

If both cars had the same engine, driveline, tyres, parasitic energy consumption, mass and drag coefficient then the SUV would perform worse as it has a larger frontal area.

 

[Leon103]

Definitely a significant part of the puzzle when it comes to efficiency (along with mass, parasitic energy consumption, tyre rolling resistance and driveline inefficiencies) but a car with a larger frontal area will be worse than a car with a small frontal area if they are both developed to achieve the same drag coefficient.

No particular reason why an estate car and an SUV can't both have a similarly low drag coefficient. I suspect that in the case of the two vehicles you are comparing the estate hasn't been particularly well developed for aerodynamic performance or there are other factors coming into play.

If both cars had the same engine, driveline, tyres, parasitic energy consumption, mass and drag coefficient then the SUV would perform worse as it has a larger frontal area.

I think the difference is one is a 1.4 hybrid the other is a 2.1l amg that I like slamming in sport+ mode.
We all know merc lie about possible mpg and I didn't buy it for efficiency

 

[dcbrookes]

Agree on suv's, the problem lie's in how do you get a family of four away for a weekend in the country in a smaller car?

We managed to get a family of five away on holiday long before SUVs were invented (even once in a Triumph Toledo, with all the luggage on the roof). A friend of mine used to drive his family of four in a Citroen 2CV from the Midlands to the south of Spain. The trend to SUVs is caused by vanity and consumerism, not need.

 

[Rodcx500z]

We managed to get a family of five away on holiday long before SUVs were invented (even once in a Triumph Toledo, with all the luggage on the roof). A friend of mine used to drive his family of four in a Citroen 2CV from the Midlands to the south of Spain. The trend to SUVs is caused by vanity and consumerism, not need.

talking of 2cv's i had the Diane what a car bought for 75 quid fixed it up the gf and i wife now did 80,000 miles in it and sold it for 100 quid, comfy o yeah modern cars don't even come close and the little 602cc flat twin motor is a gem

 

[Chippy_Tea]

the little 602cc flat twin motor is a gem

And if you were unlucky and got a bad one you could change it on the front street on your own in a few hours.

 

[Justin Dean]

Bad economics, until that is fixed it will never really take off, include that on Heat pumps and solar panels too.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The electric vehicle (EV) market is booming, according to the latest vehicle stats. Electric car sales increased by 186% in 2020 and EVs enjoyed another record year in 2021 with more than one in ten new vehicles being electric.

See post #82

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

The electric vehicle (EV) market is booming, according to the latest vehicle stats. Electric car sales increased by 186% in 2020 and EVs enjoyed another record year in 2021 with more than one in ten new vehicles being electric.

It will be interesting to see if the trend is continuing like that now. Electricity costs three times as much now as it did in 2021.

 

[Stu's Brews]

It will be interesting to see if the trend is continuing like that now. Electricity costs three times as much now as it did in 2021.

This is something we have had discussions around at work. It still works out cheaper to charge an electric vehicle than it does for the equivalent amount of petrol/diesel but the gap is definitely closing.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

The thing is petrol and diesel costs are pretty consistent. Ok, you will pay a bit more in some places than others, motorway services being one example, but the cost differences with electric charging are far more variable. If you have an EV tariff you’ll pay 5p kwh, if not you’ll pay 36p kwh to charge at home. Get on a motorway and charge there and you are looking at anything up to £1 kwh.
I have an EV and a 5p kwh tariff which means I can get a full charge giving me a 320 mile range for about £3.75 charging at home. The same charge at a motorway service station could set me back £75.

 

[Brew_DD2]

It will be interesting to see if the trend is continuing like that now. Electricity costs three times as much now as it did in 2021.

It doesn't if you have an EV tariff. 11p/kWh overnight.

 

[Brew_DD2]

The thing is petrol and diesel costs are pretty consistent. Ok, you will pay a bit more in some places than others, motorway services being one example, but the cost differences with electric charging are far more variable. If you have an EV tariff you’ll pay 5p kwh, if not you’ll pay 36p kwh to charge at home. Get on a motorway and charge there and you are looking at anything up to £1 kwh.
I have an EV and a 5p kwh tariff which means I can get a full charge giving me a 320 mile range for about £3.75 charging at home. The same charge at a motorway service station could set me back £75.

Christ! Who is giving you a 5p/kWh rate?!

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

It doesn't if you have an EV tariff. 11p/kWh overnight.

Agreed. I have a 5p kwh tariff but not everyone has the ability to charge at home, and those tariffs are becoming harder to come by too.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Christ! Who is giving you a 5p/kWh rate?!

OVO Drive + Anytime . It’s a type of use not time of use tariff too. You have to have a compatible smart meter and car charger and anything that goes through that is 5p kwh.