Brexit thread [Poll added]

[tigertim]

Sorry but when politicians deliberately spread misinformation that they know not to be verified and checked IS lying to public.

very much like tax evasion and tax avoidance, just because you have a flashy accountant and solicitor does not make it any less wrong.

It might not make it any less wrong, morally speaking, but it does, however, make it difficult to prove legal accountability (except in the case of tax evasion). And that's what they rely on.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Tax avoidance and tax evasion = i am on the fiddle, no if's no but's the end game is the same

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Where has Brexit failed? where would like to start?

In Scotland and the north the immediate effect was the removal of EU funding to the most economically deprived areas, this was replaced by the smoke and mirrors of Levelling Up, bid for your regeneration project or in some cases take the funding central government has decided in some cases purchased directly by central government.

This bit makes me laugh, I live in Cornwall, one of the most deprived areas in Europe. We used to get lots of EU funding, Cornwall voted for Brexit, the day after the referendum the local news was full of Brexit voters demanding that Westminster stump up the shortfall of EU development money. Tossers.

 

[old dog new tricks]

This bit makes me laugh, I live in Cornwall, one of the most deprived areas in Europe. We used to get lots of EU funding, Cornwall voted for Brexit, the day after the referendum the local news was full of Brexit voters demanding that Westminster stump up the shortfall of EU development money. Tossers.

Sorry could only speak for areas with first hand experience

 

[Stu]

Tax evasion and avoidance though, are different things.

I have a pile of salary sacrifice stuff - from my car, pension, private medical and a few other bits and bobs.
I pay considerably less tax than if I simply declared my income.

That's avoidance.

Tax evasion is where a builder comes round and gives you 2 prices. One for doing it legitimately with receipts. The other where you give him bundles of £50 notes.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Avoidance is there for the mega rich, they tolerate the bits and bobs you save, it keeps you happy and it keeps them very very happy

 

[foxy]

Where has Brexit failed? where would like to start?

In Scotland and the north the immediate effect was the removal of EU funding to the most economically deprived areas, this was replaced by the smoke and mirrors of Levelling Up, bid for your regeneration project or in some cases take the funding central government has decided in some cases purchased directly by central government.

Medicines - by taking us out of the EU it had a massive effect on prescription medications as we no longer have access to European stock and have to rely on one factory for certain products leading to massive supply issues.

Immigration - Brexit removed the Dublin Agreement so removed the agreement to to return immigrants to EU member states

Finance - Whilst many will contest this but the most recent estimate is £140 Billion to be cost of Brexit to the UK

European Relations - You do not need to be in politics to see the damage this has done and might be beyond repair

Well I distinctly remember before the referendum took place it was touted that it would be 10 years or more before favourable results would be seen in the UK economy, on top of that there has been Covid hitting the economy which doesn't help.
UK has trade deals that and also take time to implement with the nations who are tipped to overtake Britain's economy Mexico, Brazil, India, and Indonesia. I would say long term the UK will find itself in a comfortable position.
If after the UK elections, the Labour Party doesn't turn things around, even though it will probably take a lot longer and get worse before it gets better. Is the populace of the UK so impatient they will be saying what a dud Labour are we should never have voted for them.

 

[lancon]

Just tried posting on general election page, but apparently I have insufficient privileges, ?banned from the page? anyone else?

 

[old dog new tricks]

Well I distinctly remember before the referendum took place it was touted that it would be 10 years or more before favourable results would be seen in the UK economy, on top of that there has been Covid hitting the economy which doesn't help.
UK has trade deals that and also take time to implement with the nations who are tipped to overtake Britain's economy Mexico, Brazil, India, and Indonesia. I would say long term the UK will find itself in a comfortable position.
If after the UK elections, the Labour Party doesn't turn things around, even though it will probably take a lot longer and get worse before it gets better. Is the populace of the UK so impatient they will be saying what a dud Labour are we should never have voted for them.

Whilst i accept your points that it will take time to see any benefits and of course world events have played a part but what you cannot escape is the facts large parts did not vote to leave Scotland for example yet were dragged along. The benefits have not happened, not sure they ever will tbh, the deal that NI got is far superior in every aspect and should be the minimum the UK aims for to cut off our nearest trading partners is insane.

What is not in dispute is the huge amount of unforeseen consequences that are still being felt

 

[lancon]

Well I distinctly remember before the referendum took place it was touted that it would be 10 years or more before favourable results would be seen in the UK economy, on top of that there has been Covid hitting the economy which doesn't help.
UK has trade deals that and also take time to implement with the nations who are tipped to overtake Britain's economy Mexico, Brazil, India, and Indonesia. I would say long term the UK will find itself in a comfortable position.
If after the UK elections, the Labour Party doesn't turn things around, even though it will probably take a lot longer and get worse before it gets better. Is the populace of the UK so impatient they will be saying what a dud Labour are we should never have voted for them.

I think it was far more loudly touted that the sun would be shining on the gold gravelled roads from day 1 as we had the royal flush, instead....

 

[foxy]

Whilst i accept your points that it will take time to see any benefits and of course world events have played a part but what you cannot escape is the facts large parts did not vote to leave Scotland for example yet were dragged along. The benefits have not happened, not sure they ever will tbh, the deal that NI got is far superior in every aspect and should be the minimum the UK aims for to cut off our nearest trading partners is insane.

What is not in dispute is the huge amount of unforeseen consequences that are still being felt

I think it proved the French are better negotiators than the Brits.
UK wanted to carry on trading but the EU wanted to punish the UK. I would have thought all those voting would have been well aware it was never going to be an easy transition.
The best thing the Brits could is stand firm, no whimpering and crying that it isn't fair, that's just what those over the channel want.

 

[Stu]

I very much doubt it'll have a positive impact on ANYONE who actually voted for it.
Seeing as it's people of my age (50s) and older that mostly voted for it, it appears that the younger folk are the ones that it's going to most deeply impact though.

I quote this morning......

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), the government’s independent official economic forecaster, believes Brexit will mean a long-term reduction in UK national income - compared to where it would otherwise be - of around 4%, with the full effect felt after 15 years.

 

[Stu]

Avoidance is there for the mega rich, they tolerate the bits and bobs you save, it keeps you happy and it keeps them very very happy

Exactly this.

Which is why Farage is just a Tory in a country suit. He's a multi-millionaire with multi-millionaire (and billionaire) friends.
If you want to talk about why we as the lower classes pay more tax than the upper classes and fix it, then arguably left wing politics will fix this.

But the right-wing papers that everyone buys says "Rah rah, communism, socialism. Isn't it scary. Anti-Semitism". Actually, the lower classes would be better off under Labour. As much as anti-semitism is a bad thing, so is lining your mates pockets with public money. Look at the Michelle Mone thing.

I was in a meeting yesterday. One of our £1000 a day contractors asked our director what he thinks the impact will be on contractors if and when Labour get in. He's been here for nearly 2 years and is worried they're going to remove the few loopholes he has with his £200k salary. I'm going to cry him a pigging river. If this guy was a specialist with some really cracking skills, I'd say he's worth every penny on a 3-6 month contract.

But he's not. He's very good at persuading senior bosses that he knows what he's doing. He doesn't.

 

[Cheyne_brewer]

Brexit was the biggest losing gamble in our lifetimes. Sold on a mixture of lies, xenophobia and denial of reality.

The extra millions a week for the NHS? Nowhere. The migrant workers who picked our farm produce? No longer available. Skilled trades to reinforce our house building ambitions? Still in Poland etc.

Enjoy the new reality all who voted for Brexit. It’s rather less cosy than it was made out to be.

 

[Bjorn Toulouse]

Where did all the leavers go? this forum use to be full of them.
Incidentally, remember the cabinet minister who was signing off The great deal? "I didn't read it all because I was going to my daughters nativity play"

Anyway, why the Torys are ended.

David Cameron, coward, scared of Nigel.
Theresa May, on a hiding to nothing due to the far right of the party and Brexit.
Boris, total buffoon, sadly though he was quite funny.
Liz Truss, tory answer to Jeremy Corbin, nutter.
Rishi Sunak, sadly the best of a bad bunch and inherited 14years of madness.
Its a pity he didn't change colours I would vote for him if he was a little more to the centre left.

Finally Nigel. Nigel knows the average voter in the UK is stupid. He also knows he will never have to implement any of his "Contract". This means he can promise anything. The voters just lap it up. I wonder when he will be the head of the Torys.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Finally Nigel. Nigel knows the average voter in the UK is stupid. He also knows he will never have to implement any of his "Contract". This means he can promise anything. The voters just lap it up. I wonder when he will be the head of the Torys.

I'm not really sure that he actually wants to be the leader of the Tories. He'd have to actually do something. His entire 'career' has been built around being on the sidelines shouting criticism (MEP, UKIP, Brexit, Reform) without having to actually do something himself or accomplish anything.

 

[Rodcx500z]

without having to actually do something himself or accomplish anything.

Does that make him faust fuc--r as they say round this neck of the woods

 

[Rodcx500z]

But he's not. He's very good at persuading senior bosses that he knows what he's doing. He doesn't.

It's not what you know it's who you know and how you influence them, it's the way forward and how you make loads of money, if you look at your life outside the circle of your friends nobody gives a feck about you, and if you hit hard times you will soon find out who your fake friends are

 

[Northern_Brewer]

UK wanted to carry on trading but the EU wanted to punish the UK.

Don't be such a victim, there's no evidence of the EU wanting to punish the UK, quite the reverse, they've been incredibly patient.

Brexiteers wanted to become a third country for trading with the EU and they got it. All Brussels has done is enforce the existing, well-known rules for dealing with 3rd countries, or acted in their own interests during the negotiation. I would expect nothing less.

In what ways, specifically, have the EU gone beyond the existing rules or their own interests, to "punish" the UK?

 

[Rodcx500z]

They th didrow a strop when we said they needed a license to fish in our waters