Brexit thread [Poll added]

[dad_of_jon]

That was an analogy, I wasn't suggesting we should let either of these sleeping dogs lie.
But, peace, brothers and sisters. An evil has been done and it can't be easily undone. That doesn't mean that now, at the time of a general election is not the time to talk about it. @Chippy_Tea has rightly pointed out that neither the Cons or Labour are talking about it, but it is the elephant in the room. ALL the other parties are talking about it and it needs talking about there as it does here.
I can almost forgive the Cons for being too embarrassed and entrenched to have anything to say, but for Starmer ( I won't include Labour here) it's just another example of the man's political and moral cowardice that he won't talk about it.
This is the Lib Dems position:

We will:
•Fix the UK’s broken relationship with Europe, forge a new partnership
built on cooperation, not confrontation, and move to conclude a new
comprehensive agreement which removes as many barriers to trade
as possible.
In addition we will:
•Fix the UK’s broken relationship with Europe by following our four-stage
roadmap:
• Taking initial unilateral steps to rebuild the relationship, starting by declaring a
fundamental change in the UK’s approach and improving channels for foreign
policy cooperation.
• Rebuilding confidence through seeking to agree partnerships or associations
with EU agencies and programmes such as the European Aviation Safety
Agency, Erasmus Plus, scientific programmes, climate and environment
initiatives, and cooperation on defence, security and crime.
• Deepening the trading relationship with critical steps for the British economy,
including negotiating comprehensive veterinary and plant health agreements
and mutual recognition agreements.
• Finally, once ties of trust and friendship have been renewed, and the damage
the Conservatives have caused to trade between the UK and EU has begun to
be repaired, we would aim to place the UK-EU relationship on a more formal
and stable footing by seeking to join the Single Market.
All these measures will help to restore the British economy and the prosperity
and opportunities of its citizens, and are also essential steps on the road to EU
membership, which remains our longer-term objective.

You may not agree with the Lib Dems or their policies, but their manifesto, at least, is a model of clarity.

from lib dems 2010 manifesto

• Scrap unfair university tuition fees for all students taking their first
degree, including those studying part-time, saving them over £10,000
each. We have a fi nancially responsible plan to phase fees out over
six years, so that the change is affordable even in these difficult
economic times, and without cutting university income. We will
immediately scrap fees for final year students.

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me....

as gary numan sings on exile....

Some things you can't forget
Some things you can't forgive

 

[lancon]

I suppose Brexit was so divisive it took on all the qualities of a civil war (minus the gun shoots).
But I agree, Brexit is literally the elephant in the room in British politics since the referendum.
Ignoring it is quite bizarre

Let us not forget Jo Cox

 

[Chippy_Tea]

You are the moderator.
You literally told members not to mention Brexit in the general election thread and advised to start separate thread.
Did I mis understand this?

Yes that was not a dig at you!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

They discussed this on the radio a couple of days ago they said if we had another vote we would most likely vote to go back in as it has been a disaster the problem then is they are not going to make it easy for us and we wouldn't be on the same terms as last time.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

from lib dems 2010 manifesto

• Scrap unfair university tuition fees for all students taking their first
degree, including those studying part-time, saving them over £10,000
each. We have a fi nancially responsible plan to phase fees out over
six years, so that the change is affordable even in these difficult
economic times, and without cutting university income. We will
immediately scrap fees for final year students.

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me....

as gary numan sings on exile....

Some things you can't forget
Some things you can't forgive

And how were they going to implement that given that they only had 57 seats?

 

[An Ankoù]

They are totally different subjects. Brexit has had nothing to do with the state of the Conservative party of the rise of Reform

I don't think that's right.
The last election was won on the Clown's mantra "Let's get Brexit Done". A lot of the disillusionment with Corbin sas his unwillingness to come form off the fence, but we're not discussing Corbin. All the PMs from Cameron to Johnson were led by the nose by the ERG and May's tenure was hamstrung by her inability to pass Brexit legislation.
As for Reform, I'm not sure there's any kind of "rise", more like a couple of big gobs on steroids being given too much air time. But, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Farridge have something to say about Brexit at the time?

 

[lancon]

They discussed this on the radio a couple of days ago they said if we had another vote we would most likely vote to go back in as it has been a disaster the problem then is they are not going to make it easy for us and we wouldn't be on the same terms as last time.

Was this on the radio in a discussion to do with the general election?

 

[JockyBrewer]

They discussed this on the radio a couple of days ago they said if we had another vote we would most likely vote to go back in as it has been a disaster the problem then is they are not going to make it easy for us and we wouldn't be on the same terms as last time.

Yes, we will never have the same preferential terms we previously had. That was the real tragedy of Brexit - as a country we showed such disdain for the EU when really we should have been one of the ones steering it.

One of the biggest lies during the referendum was that we could just adopt the existing customs laws as a starting point and then negotiate changes from there, whereas in reality:

1. That might have worked if we were ok with keeping all the things that had been campaigned about not doing any more (e.g. free movement, EU payments), but those were going to be politically unpalatable here.

2. The EU had no incentive to allow us anything else - they are a much bigger partner in almost any deal they do internationally except for the US and China, whom are on a similar scale.

I reckoned back in 2016 that it would cause 10 years of pain (from leaving) to reorient the economy in a way to get the best of the new position. 4.5 years in and the pace has been so glacial I think it might be more like 20. Perhaps a new government will do what they need to move things on.

 

[foxy]

Brexit what's that o yeah it was 8 years ago, no wonder the country is stood still,

The country has been in decline since 2008, banks were bailed out with public money and how much has been paid back? Then Covid hit the economy followed by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Has Brexit contributed to the poor economic growth? No one knows.

 

[lancon]

The country has been in decline since 2008, banks were bailed out with public money and how much has been paid back? Then Covid hit the economy followed by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Has Brexit contributed to the poor economic growth? No one knows.

I'm afraid your memory is being a bit picky here, COVID was 2020, could nothing have been done to stop this in the 12 years?
No one knows is an ostrich reply. There have been numerous reports on the negative effects of Brexit.

 

[foxy]

I'm afraid your memory is being a bit picky here, COVID was 2020, could nothing have been done to stop this in the 12 years?
No one knows is an ostrich reply. There have been numerous reports on the negative effects of Brexit.

So show me where Brexit is to blame I live in Australia and since the FTA came into play there has been a lot more British products hitting these shores

 

[Bosch]

So show me where Brexit is to blame I live in Australia and since the FTA came into play there has been a lot more British products hitting these shores

So Brexit has made it easier to trade with a country almost 10,000 miles away than with it's nearest neighbours?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Was this on the radio in a discussion to do with the general election?

.
The discussion was about how the Tory governme has failed this country and is about to be cast into the polirical wilderness and the reasons why their voters are leaving them in droves.
Gettung Brexit done was supposed to be the start not the end they lied to us they are about to pay a high price forcthat.
Several people who voted to leave said they wish they had not done so for the aforementioned reasons only one caller said he was right to vote stay.

 

[foxy]

So Brexit has made it easier to trade with a country almost 10,000 miles away than with it's nearest neighbours?

UK still trades with the EU but now trades with other countries further afield.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Nice try.
No it was in a discussion about how the Tory governme has failed this country and is about to be cast into the polirical wilderness and the reasons why their voters are leaving them in droves.

Interesting. I wonder what event could cause a government to be cast into political wilderness. Or what event "voters" would be "voting" in.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Interesting. I wonder what event could cause a government to be cast into political wilderness. Or what event "voters" would be "voting" in.

You quoted my post before I edited it

The discussion was about how the Tory government has failed this country and is about to be cast into the polirical wilderness and the reasons why their voters are leaving them in droves.
Getting Brexit done was supposed to be the start not the end of it what benefit have we gained by leaving, they lied to us they are about to pay a high price forcthat.
Several people who voted to leave said they wish they had not done so for the aforementioned reasons only one caller said he was right to vote stay.

The discussion was about what has caused them to be on the brink of a disaster not about whether the Tories have discussed us going back in at any point leading up to the GE.

 

[An Ankoù]

UK still trades with the EU but now trades with other countries further afield.

That's true on the face of it, but UK does not trade with EU on the same, preferential terms as hitherto and UK has always traded with other countries. Take NZ lamb, for example, there was no shortage of that while we were in the Single Market- we were knee deep in it. I find NZ lamb in the supermarkets in France, too not to mention avocados from Peru, chillis from the Antilles and other stuff from far less savoury countries. Most of the junk we find in every shop comes, well, on junks. So what has UK gained?
Oh, and I get my NZ and Oz hops (I hardly use US hops) from Beerco.com in Melbourne. No problem delivering them to France and no duty provided I spend less than around 250 AUD.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Tory governme ... is about to be cast into the polirical wilderness

Can you elaborate by which mechanism they are about to be cast into the policital wilderness and why it this has come up all of a sudden? I'm keen to learn about it.

 

[Agentgonzo]

That's true on the face of it, but UK does not trade with EU on the same, preferential terms as hitherto and UK has always traded with other countries. Take NZ lamb, for example, there was no shortage of that while we were in the Single Market- we were knee deep in it. I find NZ lamb in the supermarkets in France, too not to mention avocados from Peru, chillis from the Antilles and other stuff from far less savoury countries. Most of the junk we find in every shop comes, well, on junks. So what has UK gained?

Blue passports. Weren't you listening?

 

[An Ankoù]

Blue passports. Weren't you listening?

But they weren't blue. They were black. I've still gt one.