Beginners Sour.

[Weatherman]

Evening all

I’ve been AG brewing for a couple of years now and I am approaching competent. I use a Brewster 40L and have x2 temp control fridges with heaters/ink birds etc.

My wife is just starting to enjoy Sour beers and I would like to be able to try and make one.

Everything I read seems very intimidating with many more steps than what I would ordinarily do.

Can someone point me in the direction of a simple, clear recipe please?

Her favourite so far has been a pastore/gamma collaboration hoppy sour DDH ONDA.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Sadfield]

Looking at the reference beer, brewing a hazy ipa using this yeast looks like the most straight forward option.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/product-details/wildbrew-philly-sour/

 

[Rwilts]

https://share.brewfather.app/zLC7o9A1xhcNpN
Did this as my very first sour on Friday . Fermentation seems slow but progressing

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Philly sour starts off slow as the pH drops and then will speed up. Quite temp tolerant and you can ramp it up to 28 c towards end of ferment.
It drops super clear on it's own with time and cold.

 

[Bzee]

Make a regular pale beer light on hops and chuck 2 kilo of previously frozen sloes in leave for a few weeks. Tastes better if left a few months after bottleing. Now is the time sloes are looking good. Btw im not saying this involves a lactic fememtation but its sour as ..

 

[MickDundee]

I’m me thing you need to remember with the Philly Sour yeast is you need to have plenty of simple sugars in there to get it sour enough.

 

[Weatherman]

Looking at the reference beer, brewing a hazy ipa using this yeast looks like the most straight forward option.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/product-details/wildbrew-philly-sour/

So, using Philly sour, is it as simple as brewing a hazy IPA that I like and then using the Philly yeast?

Then don’t use the Fermentor for non sour beers aaagain?

Thanks for the replies all.

 

[Rwilts]

So, using Philly sour, is it as simple as brewing a hazy IPA that I like and then using the Philly yeast?

Then don’t use the Fermentor for non sour beers aaagain?

Thanks for the replies all.

That's my understanding

 

[Sadfield]

So, using Philly sour, is it as simple as brewing a hazy IPA that I like and then using the Philly yeast?

Then don’t use the Fermentor for non sour beers aaagain?

Thanks for the replies all.

Just swap your usual yeast for Philly Sour. Clean and sanitise your FV as normal. Treat it as any other Brewers yeast.

From the data sheet pdf

"Despite being a non-Saccharomyces species, extensive laboratory testing, field trials and commercial production experience has shown that WildBrew Philly Sour™ does not present any additional risk of cross contamination compared to other brewing yeast strains."

 

[Rwilts]

Good idea @Sadfield . I have them downloaded.

 

[MickDundee]

So, using Philly sour, is it as simple as brewing a hazy IPA that I like and then using the Philly yeast?

Then don’t use the Fermentor for non sour beers aaagain?

Thanks for the replies all.

You don’t need to designate the fermenter as sours only because Philly Sour isn’t meant to contaminate. It’s meant to be quite a “weak” yeast and any normal brewing yeast should “kill it off”.

In terms of your recipe, bitterness and sourness can clash so it can be quite difficult to get the balance right on a sour IPA. You might want to tone down the hops slightly compared to if you were brewing a “normal” NEIPA.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Here is the recipe for my Lime Gose which a few forum members tried and liked.

You could use this as a starting point to make your own recipe if you would like?

 

[Weatherman]

Here is the recipe for my Lime Gose which a few forum members tried and liked.

You could use this as a starting point to make your own recipe if you would like?

Many thanks. I currently have not ventured into making my own recipes, there re so many to try I always find one that sounds great.

I think I may use the malt miller DDH

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/cashmere-ddh-pale-ale-kveik/?v=79cba1185463
and split the wort into x2 15 litre FV I have. Do one with Kviek at a higher temp and one with the Philly sour yeast. I’ve been wanting to try using Kviek too.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Sounds like a plan. Just don't mix philly sour with any other yeast, as the other yeast will overtake it and you'll end up with a non-sour beer.

Edit:- just looked at the maltmiller recipe and it has 200g of hops. You can't put that many hops in a sour unless you seriously know what you're doing, it might be undrinkable. You only need a few IBU's at best. Bitter and sour don't go together. The flavours don't work.

Don't want you to waste your money on loads of hops if there's any risk of the beer not turning out the way you want.

Anyway, good luck with it.

 

[Weatherman]

Sounds like a plan. Just don't mix philly sour with any other yeast, as the other yeast will overtake it and you'll end up with a non-sour beer.

Edit:- just looked at the maltmiller recipe and it has 200g of hops. You can't put that many hops in a sour unless you seriously know what you're doing, it might be undrinkable. You only need a few IBU's at best. Bitter and sour don't go together. The flavours don't work.

Don't want you to waste your money on loads of hops if there's any risk of the beer not turning out the way you want.

Anyway, good luck with it.

Thanks for the tip, I will do some more investigating

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Thanks for the tip, I will do some more investigating

You're very welcome.

 

[Sadfield]

A good point from @Tess Tickle's Brewery regarding bitterness and sourness, you want to avoid doing a sour 50 Ibu West Coast IPA. The hops in the MM recipe are all at flame out and dry hop, so should work well without extracting too much bitterness, if the steeping temperature is 70-80°C. Being yeast based souring, Philly Sour isn't inhibited by hops like Lactobacillus is. 10-25 ibus is pretty standard for sour beers. Cantillon list their Gueuze, as 30 IBU's, and that's a classic, Belgian sour.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I agree to a point sadfield, but I think that amount of dry hops would add some unwanted astringency and that might ruin the beer. The whirlpool addition on it's own would probably be ok, but I wouldn't risk it personally. The malt bill (for a sour) has very light malts in it that are easily overpowered.

I know breweries make hoppy sours but we don't know how many hops is hoppy, if you get me.

I'm sure the OP will learn from whatever he puts in it. I'm out.

 

[Weatherman]

Both great points to consider and many thanks.

The pastour sour DDH that my wife likes
Felt like it was going to burst my ear drums so I really won’t be able to judge what’s hoppy or sour enough. This could be an interesting experiment!

 

[Sadfield]

If you are splitting the batch, then you always have blending sour with not sour, as an option.