strange-steve
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YepThanks got the report and attached it.
Is it the 'mean value' i should be reading ? So chloride 26 and sulphate 33.1 ?
YepThanks got the report and attached it.
Is it the 'mean value' i should be reading ? So chloride 26 and sulphate 33.1 ?
They're rather low but that's not a problem because it's easy to increase them. Are you using CRS to reduce the alkalinity?Ok great.
Are they about normal levels for chloride and sulphate ?
I was thinking that i just need to add some calcium chloride to improve the ratio over sulphate.
Well the use of CRS complicates the calculation a little because it actually adds sulphate and chloride. So if for example you added enough CRS to reduce the alkalinity to 30ppm (about 0.96ml/l) this would add about 85ppm of sulphate and 62ppm of chloride, so take that into consideration when workout your additions.Yes using CRS.
So i'll just add Gypsum and Calcium Chloride at the rates in your guide to get the PPM i want for Chloride & Sulphate levels.
That’s super, thanks Steve. I’ll pop some gypsum and calcium chloride into my basket when I order my ingredients. I’ve just been told my in laws are getting me a GEB voucher for my birthday (SWMBO asked if an Amazon voucher is ok, and when I hesitated she asked me to send her a link to a brewing gift voucher) so will probably hold off doing any ordering for a week and a half until my birthday so I can order ingredients and equipment together.@MickDundee yes I would increase your calcium to at least 100ppm for all beers apart from lagers which can be a bit lower. Also that 0.3g/l max I mentioned in the OP is a very conservative figure (which I've been meaning to change) so don't be afraid to go a bit higher. In fact I'd probably recommend you add 0.4g/l to your NEIPA.
If I understand your question I think you're asking what water profile you would enter to account for the changes caused by the CRS? If so then then there are a few changes you'd make.Thanks again for this, keeps being useful every time I come back to it!
How would you tie the addition of CRS back to the rest of a water profile?
Unfortunately brewfather doesn't have CRS as an addition, so should I just use a salifert test and adjust alkalinity, then take the rest of the water additions relative to the measured profile I have, or should I set bicarbonate (HCO3-) to either 0, which then also reduces alkalinity to 0, or another number so that residual alkalinity is equal to zero, but then leaves an imbalance between cations and anions?
Thanks in advance for any help.
If I understand your question I think you're asking what water profile you would enter to account for the changes caused by the CRS? If so then then there are a few changes you'd make.
First of all you would enter the post-adjustment alkalinity, so if you reduced your alkalinity from say 100ppm to 25ppm then obviously you would enter an alkalinity of 25ppm. If the software is asking for bicarbonate (rather than CaCO3 that is) then you can convert by multiplying by 1.22 (so 25ppm as CaCO3 would become 31ppm bicarbonate).
Next you would adjust the sulphate and chloride to account for the increase from the CRS, 1ml/L adds about 88ppm sulphate and 64ppm chloride.
Everything else, such as calcium, sdoium, magnesium, etc will stay the same.
Hardness can be a little confusing but the first thing to note is that hardness is a measure of both magnesium and calcium, which is why you're getting the discrepancy. That box in the converter will convert from magnesium as CaCO3 to magnesium ppm, which is not the same as converting from hardness as CaCO3 to magnesium ppm. If you put a value or 223 in there then the calculator is assuming that 223ppm of hardness is from magnesium, which isn't the case because some (most) of that 223ppm is from calcium.Hey all, I feel that I am now in the intermediate range when it comes to understanding water chemistry and its effect on fermentation and the finished beer. This is in large part due to this extremely heplful thread, so thanks!
There is one glaring hole in my understanding though that I just can't reconcile. It would be great to get some advice please if possible...
I use Brunwater and I have inputted the various values, initially from a Thames Water report and later from a Murphy's test I paid for. Reassuringly the values were very similar.
There's one thing I just don't understand though. I gather from Martin Brungard that hardness as CaCo3 determines the amount of magnesium in the water as it's a fixed rate. If I enter the hardness as CaCo3 (223 ppm) into the converter around halfway down the "Water report input" page it tells me that my total magnesium ppm is 54.2. However I already know (or I think I do!) that the Mg is only 2.9ppm as both water reports have told me this.
So what's the reason for this massive discrepancy? I believe the low figure to be correct because my anion/cation balance is in the green range, so what am I missing? Is the magnesium calculation something different when it's part of the CaCo3 conversation? If my water report didn't have a value for Mg and I were using the Brunwater conversion then I would have entered 54.2ppm and my ion balance would be way off.
Thanks in advance
Hi Steve,Hardness can be a little confusing but the first thing to note is that hardness is a measure of both magnesium and calcium, which is why you're getting the discrepancy. That box in the converter will convert from magnesium as CaCO3 to magnesium ppm, which is not the same as converting from hardness as CaCO3 to magnesium ppm. If you put a value or 223 in there then the calculator is assuming that 223ppm of hardness is from magnesium, which isn't the case because some (most) of that 223ppm is from calcium.
The thing is you can't tell what proportion is calcium and what is magnesium just from a hardness value. In order to convert between hardness, calcium, and magnesium you need to know 2 of the variables which is why there is no converter for that, and it means that hardness often isn't a terribly useful value for us.
In your case however you have a magnesium value which is great, so you don't need that converter. And because you also have the hardness as CaCO3 you can then work out the calcium concentration (although if you have a Murphy's report you probably know that already):
Calcium = (hardness as CaCO3 - (4.1 * magnesium)) / 2.5
= (223 - 11.9) / 2.5
= 211.1 / 2.5
= 84.4 ppm
Yeah that report isn't terribly useful I'm afraid. First things you need to do before making any adjustments is to find out the alkalinity and calcium. Get yourself a couple of test kits like these then you'll know your baseline:Hi All. Reading through this, I'm still stumped as to what do with my water data, as some info like alkalinity and calcium isn't present in the report. Can someone please advise? I like brewing all sorts of beer especially darker beers, but also IPA and would like to try Belgian tripel or dubbel. I bought some gypsum thinking that would sort out an acidic bite from my Stout, but haven't tried it in a brew yet. I've since bought some alkalinity and ph strips too.
View attachment 30357
Yeah that report isn't terribly useful I'm afraid. First things you need to do before making any adjustments is to find out the alkalinity and calcium. Get yourself a couple of test kits like these then you'll know your baseline:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006NWO0J6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_2NvkFb8DDSC5Yhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PGOYVE6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_tOvkFbPSM2WKF
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