Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[DarrenB]

I carried out some tests there

Ph is 6.8
Caco3 before treatment is 121
Added 0.1ml of phos to 1 litre and gave a good stir
Caco3 after was 33.5,
That's 87 ppm reduction, I will double check these figures tomorrow

 

[DarrenB]

Checked again there this morning after reading your guide on the salifert test again.

112 caco3 before adjustment
51 after adjustment so that's a 61ppm reduction, bang on

Going for a helles today

My calcium is 70 so going to leave that alone
Aiming for 16 ppm hc03
Mash water 25 litres, so looking at .2ml/l so that's 5ml in the mash

Hope it works out


Thanks again Steve

 

[DarrenB]

Brunwater estimated 5.4, I hit 5.6, very happy with that result.

 

[strange-steve]

Sounds great, helles is the next beer on my list, what recipe did you use?

 

[DarrenB]

90% bestmalz pilsner
4.3% Munich
2.2.% Melanoiden
3.2% carapills
2 packs saflalger 34/70 for 23 litres
Mt hood at 60 minutes 14.5 ibu

Added some calcium chloride to bring out a bit of malt character

Will do quick lager method
11 degrees for 4 days then ramp up to 18 to finish off and diac rest
Cold crash fine with gelatine for 2 days
Keg and lager for as long as I can keep me grubby hands off it:)

 

[strange-steve]

That looks pretty close to my recipe actually, good luck with the brew :thumb:

 

[JapanBrew]

Sorry I've only done ales but starting lagers this year. But isn't laggering done before kegging?

 

[DarrenB]

Lagering is done primarily in kegs or bottles. Some folk do it in primary or secondary.
You want your lager off the yeast cake as soon as fermentation is complete. Get it into kegs asap and purge any o2 then cold store and condition (lager)

 

[peteplus1]

How?

Well first you need to know what your alkalinity is. To do this you need a Salifert KH test kit which will give you an alkalinity value in dKH. Simply multiply that by 17.9 to convert to ppm.

Trying to get my head around the matter of water treatment. As always, found THBF very useful and informative.

I have found my local water report, and I have the figures for everything required on THBF water calculator but not sure about alkalinity. There's nothing in the readings for carbonate CO3 or Alkalinity as HCO3. It does however say this along side the report..

Water hardness average: 50.4mg/l calcium

Is this the calcium carbonate figure I can put into the box requiring CaCO3 on the water treatment calculator page http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/water.php ?

I also have this figure for pH in the readings..
pH (Hydrogen Ion Conc.) 7.1 pH Units

If not, and I purchase a kit as mentioned above in the quote, which box does this converted to ppm figure go in?

Forgive my dumb question if this is obvious!

 

[strange-steve]

Trying to get my head around the matter of water treatment. As always, found THBF very useful and informative.

I have found my local water report, and I have the figures for everything required on THBF water calculator but not sure about alkalinity. There's nothing in the readings for carbonate CO3 or Alkalinity as HCO3. It does however say this along side the report..

Water hardness average: 50.4mg/l calcium

Is this the calcium carbonate figure I can put into the box requiring CaCO3 on the water treatment calculator page http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/water.php ?

I also have this figure for pH in the readings..
pH (Hydrogen Ion Conc.) 7.1 pH Units

If not, and I purchase a kit as mentioned above in the quote, which box does this converted to ppm figure go in?

Forgive my dumb question if this is obvious!

No I'm afraid not, hardness and alkalinity are not the same so you're going to have to get a Salifert KH test kit. Tbh I would recommend getting one even if your water report had the alkalinity figure because it is quite variable and you should test before every brew.

Once you have tested and got your alkalinity in ppm enter in the box marked Alkalinity as CaCO3 in that calculator.

 

[strange-steve]

Just in case anyone is interested, you can find more advanced water treatment info here, specifically talking about sulphate:chloride ratios, and possibly more to follow.

 

[Druncan]

In preparation to me moving to BIAB, I have been wondering about our Hard, water,,,:-(
Our Scottish Water 2015-2016 analysis is this for Tiree;
Ca 110.08ppm, Mg 11.6ppm, CaCo3 322.34ppm, Na 41ppm, Cl 70.33ppm, So4 30.13ppm

Did the Salifert KH/Alk test three times with out tap water @ 11.4*c KH = 1.2ml ! and off the chart

All our water comes from boreholes and the water has percolated through shell sand. It is clear and tastes great to me.

As I currently only do extract and steeped grains with hop tea it is fine.
However, I am wondering what I can do when going to grain?

Steve; Will this mean I can only brew Strong IPA and stouts? without big water adjustments?
We all have lovely teeth a bones though,,,:thumb:

Will get the calcium kit next and I now have my sample bottles so will send a sample to Murphy's.
Cheers!

 

[BeerCat]

I came across this somewhere forgotten but i thought it might be helpful for anyone needing their water tested. I seem to remember it was £25 but i may be wrong. http://www.phoenix-analytical.co.uk/
Big improvement in my beers since i have been adjusting my water. Cheers Steve. :drink: and:hat:

 

[strange-steve]

In preparation to me moving to BIAB, I have been wondering about our Hard, water,,,:-(
Our Scottish Water 2015-2016 analysis is this for Tiree;
Ca 110.08ppm, Mg 11.6ppm, CaCo3 322.34ppm, Na 41ppm, Cl 70.33ppm, So4 30.13ppm

Did the Salifert KH/Alk test three times with out tap water @ 11.4*c KH = 1.2ml ! and off the chart

All our water comes from boreholes and the water has percolated through shell sand. It is clear and tastes great to me.

As I currently only do extract and steeped grains with hop tea it is fine.
However, I am wondering what I can do when going to grain?

Steve; Will this mean I can only brew Strong IPA and stouts? without big water adjustments?
We all have lovely teeth a bones though,,,:thumb:

Will get the calcium kit next and I now have my sample bottles so will send a sample to Murphy's.
Cheers!

Ok, from your salifert results you have alkalinity of 335ppm which is pretty close to what your analysis says. I'll be honest, your water isn't good for brewing. To get the alkalinity down to a workable level you would need a lot of acid, the amount of lactic acid would be well over the taste threshold and CRS (which I'm personally not a fan of) would make your chloride and sulphate levels sky high.

The best option for you would be to try to source some RO water, or failing that, Tesco Ashbeck water. Then you have two options, either use the RO/TA and treat as required, or use it to dilute your tap water.

The dilution method might be ok for a stout if you use a ratio of about 3:1 RO to tap, but for anything lighter you might as well just use the RO.

Sorry it's not better news but some tap water just isn't worth messing about with. I'm of the opinion that less is more with water content, and that even the suggestions in the op are on the high side. However there's a lot of disagreement, even among the experts, so I tried to go for a middle ground.

 

[strange-steve]

I came across this somewhere forgotten but i thought it might be helpful for anyone needing their water tested. I seem to remember it was �£25 but i may be wrong. http://www.phoenix-analytical.co.uk/
Big improvement in my beers since i have been adjusting my water. Cheers Steve. :drink: and:hat:

From what I understand they are much better than Murphy's :thumb:

 

[Druncan]

Ok, from your salifert results you have alkalinity of 335ppm which is pretty close to what your analysis says. I'll be honest, your water isn't good for brewing. To get the alkalinity down to a workable level you would need a lot of acid, the amount of lactic acid would be well over the taste threshold and CRS (which I'm personally not a fan of) would make your chloride and sulphate levels sky high.

Sorry it's not better news but some tap water just isn't worth messing about with. I'm of the opinion that less is more with water content, and that even the suggestions in the op are on the high side. However there's a lot of disagreement, even among the experts, so I tried to go for a middle ground.

Steve, the knowledge is the important bit, If our water has xs alkalinity thanks to you I can plan to work around this. Part of the benefits of being on this forum!!:thumb:

I also have a well and will test that. I also harvest rainwater. It may need full UV and a lot of monitoring for bacteria/debris. My last resort may be R/O.

I like a challenge, will work on that and report back!

 

[Druncan]

Steve;
1.) I have tested our well water This changed colour @ 1.2ml, so the same as the tap water. :-( With TDS 453 and ph 7.38. So that looks like a no goer.

2.) I have tested our harvested rain water. This changed colour @ 0.2ml= 12.5 KH which would be CAC03 223ppm? TDS 58 and ph 6.31. There may be issues with bacteria and removing debris. Probably UV treating with a carbon filter? This may be an option.

3.) I have tested our dehumidifier condensate that I use for my Starsan spray bottles. This change colour @ 0.08ml = 14.4 KH which would be CAC03 257ppm??? TDS 8 and ph 6.81? this may be an option but it takes ages to get 2l?

I would welcome your views on my options:-?

Sadly bringing bottles of RO over to us would not be viable due to the waste from plastic containers,,,, (we get charged on all our commercial waste that must be removed from Tiree)

 

[shepp]

Steve;
1.) I have tested our well water This changed colour @ 1.2ml, so the same as the tap water. :-( With TDS 453 and ph 7.38. So that looks like a no goer.

2.) I have tested our harvested rain water. This changed colour @ 0.2ml= 12.5 KH which would be CAC03 223ppm? TDS 58 and ph 6.31. There may be issues with bacteria and removing debris. Probably UV treating with a carbon filter? This may be an option.

3.) I have tested our dehumidifier condensate that I use for my Starsan spray bottles. This change colour @ 0.08ml = 14.4 KH which would be CAC03 257ppm??? TDS 8 and ph 6.81? this may be an option but it takes ages to get 2l?

I would welcome your views on my options:-?

Sadly bringing bottles of RO over to us would not be viable due to the waste from plastic containers,,,, (we get charged on all our commercial waste that must be removed from Tiree)

If I were you I would get an RO filter, looking on ebay they are not too expensive.

 

[strange-steve]

Steve;
1.) I have tested our well water This changed colour @ 1.2ml, so the same as the tap water. :-( With TDS 453 and ph 7.38. So that looks like a no goer.

Nope, no good.

2.) I have tested our harvested rain water. This changed colour @ 0.2ml= 12.5 KH which would be CAC03 223ppm? TDS 58 and ph 6.31. There may be issues with bacteria and removing debris. Probably UV treating with a carbon filter? This may be an option.

You sure about this part? Did it change colour with 0.2ml used or 0.2ml remaining in the syringe?

3.) I have tested our dehumidifier condensate that I use for my Starsan spray bottles. This change colour @ 0.08ml = 14.4 KH which would be CAC03 257ppm??? TDS 8 and ph 6.81? this may be an option but it takes ages to get 2l?

Again I think you may be misreading this, have a look at the salifert how-to here if you're not sure. In any case I personally wouldn't want to use water from my dehumidifier.

Sadly bringing bottles of RO over to us would not be viable due to the waste from plastic containers,,,, (we get charged on all our commercial waste that must be removed from Tiree)

I think shepp might be right, I installed one under the kitchen sink and I love it.

 

[Druncan]

Steve,
The Rainwater used 0.2ml to turn slight pink = 223ppm? - Could I blend this with tap water?

The dehumidifier condensate used 0.8ml to turn slight pink = 257ppm?

Just not sure why the resultant CACO3 ppm shows an increase when it turns pink with less indicator used?

Which R/O unit did you get?