Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[strange-steve]

Steve,
The Rainwater used 0.2ml to turn slight pink = 223ppm? - Could I blend this with tap water?

The dehumidifier condensate used 0.8ml to turn slight pink = 257ppm?

Just not sure why the resultant CACO3 ppm shows an increase when it turns pink with less indicator used?

Which R/O unit did you get?

I'm pretty sure you're reading it backwards. The reading in ml is not how much you've used, it's how much is left in the syringe. So if you used 0.2ml then there is 0.8ml left which gives 2.8dKH or 50ppm.

 

[Druncan]

Cheers Steve! Agreed, and finally understood! Thank's to you, my plan to AG is now becoming clearer,,,, :)

So, as a brewing liquor the 50ppm rainwater source could be UV cleansed sanitised and blended proportionally with the hard alkaline mains to give me my various brewing liquor's required for my different AG brews?

It may be initially complicated, but from a different perspective to most of the mainland,,,,
For information, What RO system did you go for?
Cheers
Drunc.

 

[strange-steve]

Yes you could do it that way although 50ppm alkalinity is still too high for most beers so you'll still need to add acid.

This isn't exactly the same as my RO system but it's very similar: ebay link.

 

[Druncan]

Cheers Steve. I have been going back through JPalmers Water. Looking how the brewers of old managed to brew in hard water areas. e.g Dublin 315, Burton 270, Dortmund 235, All seemed to use heating liquor to remove temporary hardness. But it only works in extreme alkalinity areas like mine. Boiling for 30mins was usual to remove CO2 and affect the balance. Cooling the liquor allows the CACO3 to precipitate out. Then pour off the chalky residue.

So, I have tried the same. Boil in pan with lid on 30mins cooled to 21* C pour off liquor and loads of residue left in the pan. Then test.

TDS 246ppm the sample took .25ml to turn leaving .75ml 3.65kh = 65ppm!!! repeated three times same result.
Is there anything I have missed of does this seem a viable solution?

 

[strange-steve]

Cheers Steve. I have been going back through JPalmers Water. Looking how the brewers of old managed to brew in hard water areas. e.g Dublin 315, Burton 270, Dortmund 235, All seemed to use heating liquor to remove temporary hardness. But it only works in extreme alkalinity areas like mine. Boiling for 30mins was usual to remove CO2 and affect the balance. Cooling the liquor allows the CACO3 to precipitate out. Then pour off the chalky residue.

So, I have tried the same. Boil in pan with lid on 30mins cooled to 21* C pour off liquor and loads of residue left in the pan. Then test.

TDS 246ppm the sample took .25ml to turn leaving .75ml 3.65kh = 65ppm!!! repeated three times same result.
Is there anything I have missed of does this seem a viable solution?

It is an effective way to reduce alkalinity up to a point but it has limitations. It's impressive you got the alkalinity down to 65, but you probably won't get any lower than that and it's still too high for many styles. I think most homebrewers can't be bothered with the extra work either.
The other thing to bear in mind is that this method also reduces calcium, in your case probably down to about 20ppm.

 

[Druncan]

Cheers Steve, Yup, chancy,,, but we have a long history of legal and illegal breweries on Tiree. In 1760 the Duke of Argyll opened his first legit brewery on Tiree. Probably used our acidic Loch water, However is didn't last long. Oor neighbours forefathers had a history of Shebeens. (Illicit breweries) No other HMRC breweries 'till us and we use lot's of JFDI,,, But, I will get the Calcium test kit now!

We can exist with our HLME systems. But I like a challenge,,,, Like the brewers of old. I can try to acidify from 65ppm and to be honest I want to do strong American style IPA's and Porter/Brown ales?
I even have neighbours who ask do I want them to grow barley again for my beers, FFS, Heaven!
It would be rude to refuse the opportunity? Small steps though.
If you ever plan to return to planet Earth, give me a call, and visit? Cheers, Drunc.

 

[private4587]

Is there any test for me to find out if i have chloramine in my tap water which is supplied by Northumbrian water company.

 

[FlatFenBrew]

Great post Steve!
As a new brewer with only 3 all grain brews under my belt, I am finding it fascinating about how much there is to learn about water, grain, hops and yeast!
I live in South Lincolnshire/Peterborough border and use Anglian water. So far have just left the water overnight in the HLT with lid off to let the chlorine escape. Looks like there is more to do!
Thanks
Bob

 

[strange-steve]

Is there any test for me to find out if i have chloramine in my tap water which is supplied by Northumbrian water company.

If you ask your water supplier they should be able to tell you. However campden tabs are effective for removing both chlorine and chloramine.

 

[strange-steve]

Great post Steve!
As a new brewer with only 3 all grain brews under my belt, I am finding it fascinating about how much there is to learn about water, grain, hops and yeast!
I live in South Lincolnshire/Peterborough border and use Anglian water. So far have just left the water overnight in the HLT with lid off to let the chlorine escape. Looks like there is more to do!
Thanks
Bob

Just don't get bogged down in the details, simplicity is best.

 

[private4587]

Just received my test kits and have now carried out my first tests. Results are as follows: Alkalinity =0.85ml in syringe = 2.05Dkh = 0.73meq/L = 36.7ppm
Calcium = .91ml in syringe = 45/mg/L = ppm

do these readings look correct any suggestions if incorrect. Water supplied via Northumbrian Water

 

[strange-steve]

Looks good to me. Now all you need is a small lactic acid addition for pale beers and some calcium chloride and/or gypsum.

 

[private4587]

Steve am i correct in thinking that firstly i add camden tablet before testing water or should i test water before adding and then carryout the other components

 

[strange-steve]

I test the water first then add the campden, though I don't think it should make any difference to the results.

 

[private4587]

Well here goes for my next 3 AG brews I am going to do
Northern Brown Ale
Imperial Russian Stout
Timothy Taylor landlord Ale
All of 23l batches
My water has an Alkalinity of 36.7ppm and Calcium of 45ppm.
So my water treatment is for
A. NBA add 0.65g of Sodium Bicarbonate, 4.6g of Calcium Chloride.
B. IRS add 3g of Sodium Bicarbonate, 4.6g of Calcium Chloride
C. TT add 1.15ml of Latic Acid, 5.75g of Gypsum
Hope some could check these figures for me please

 

[private4587]

Just got myself a cheap Ph pen and within the package there was two packets of test solution. These packets are to be made up with 250ml of distilled water. My question is that if i get suitable plastic bottles can i keep this liquid for further calibration tests or is it just a one off.

 

[strange-steve]

Just got myself a cheap Ph pen and within the package there was two packets of test solution. These packets are to be made up with 250ml of distilled water. My question is that if i get suitable plastic bottles can i keep this liquid for further calibration tests or is it just a one off.

No you should calibrate with freshly prepared solution I'm afraid.

 

[shepp]

Just got myself a cheap Ph pen and within the package there was two packets of test solution. These packets are to be made up with 250ml of distilled water. My question is that if i get suitable plastic bottles can i keep this liquid for further calibration tests or is it just a one off.

You can order more sachets separately quite cheaply on eBay from China.

 

[Mungri]

Starting my 7th AG brew Sunday. Haven't had any problems I could put down to water quality, but think It's time I learned about basic water treatment.
Any pointers would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Ian.
United Utilities Summary

Analysis Typical value UK/EU limit Units Hardness Level Mod. Hard
Hardness Clarke 15.225 Clarke
Aluminium <6.60 200 µg Al/l
Calcium 57.1 mg Ca/l
Residual chlorine - Total 0.40 mg/l
Residual chlorine - Free 0.33 mg/l
Coliform bacteria 0 0 number/100ml
Colour <0.957 20 mg/l Pt/Co scale
Conductivity 463 2500 uS/cm at 20oC
Copper 0.0608 2 mg Cu/l
E.coli 0 0 number/100ml
Iron 13.4 200 µg Fe/l
Lead <1.10 10 µg Pb/l
Magnesium 18.4 mg
Mg/l Manganese 1.43 50 µg Mn/l
Nitrate 5.16 50 mg NO3/l
Sodium 24.7 200 mg Na/l

 

[BeerCat]

Hi Steve, planning on doing a Kveik this weekend and have been advised "In terms of water adjustments, I've adjusted to a Bitter so far, but I suspect the profile of Old ale or Wee heavy would work very nicely too."
Could you be so kind to point me in the right direction for RO water. Cheers