Wort Chiller - Is it really necessary?

[Doive]

I follow both methods, depending on the lateness of the hour on brew day, not for any particular other reasons. Brewed last night and finished quite late, so left the wort in the sealed kettle overnight, and transferred into the fermenter this morning & pitched the yeast. Other times I hot transfer into the fermenter, then crash chill in a large bucket filled with cold water. Agitating the wort and changing the water twice gets the temperature down to pitching temp in about 30 minutes. I've never really noticed any great difference between results of the two methods.

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

What does convivial involve?

I looked up the definition of convivial on the internet and it says

We need to cascade memos about our holistic transitional mobility.

Does that help?

 

[Clint]

I prefer Cwrw's version...I would know what to do.
Whoever wrote the other one has never been pissed in their life...

 

[scomet]

No Chill No Worries, learn to adjust the hops, don't look back....

 

[Drunkula]

@HeavensBrew is is necessary for making beer? No. Like rehydrating your yeast : will it mean you've got more chance of having better beer? Yes.

You've got to decide whether you're already dead-inside and just want to makes beer in they way people make make cups of tea - a pot is too much fuss, makes no difference anyway, straight from the hot tap onto a teabag in a cup makes it just as good. Anything else is just bollocks.

Or do you have a fekking ember of excitement or adventure left inside you that wants some involvement about what you're making?

 

[An Ankoù]

My 12 litre pot is a relatively tall and narrow affair so it sits nicely on a gas ring and fits into the kitchen sink bowl too. But it came without a lid and I've had to buy the closest size I could find and hammer the edge into shape so it more or less fits, but it's by no means a good seal. I like to cool to at least below 80C quickly to minimise evaporation of hop aromas and then a bit more. A couple of changes of water in the kitchen sink are enough for this, then tie a tea towel around the top with a bit of string and leave it overnight to chill.
This has led to my kitchen-brewing regime of mash in the morning, leave all day in the picnic box, brew late afternoon and have the beer semi-cooled by tea time, then strain and pitch the following morning. Works for me.
When I use the big gear, I always use the immersion chiller. In the summer I sometimes have to leave it overnight, too, but now we've got kveik, it's not a problem.

 

[Wynne]

I recycle some cooling water for my next brew and for cleaning but realy need a bigger HLT to be able to use it all.

 

[Dro]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but is this in reference to brewing with no kit and why do you need to chill?

 

[The Baron]

Hi Dro it only applies really to beers that are boiled mainly All grain and some extract recipes that are boiled. It does generally not apply to standard can kits which are mixed with a little hot water and then topped up with cold to your pitching temp

 

[HeavensBrew]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but is this in reference to brewing with no kit and why do you need to chill?

Yes. This is about brewing all grain recipes.

 

[The Baron]

I will let somebody else answer that as I do no chill and do not think you have to chill it with a chiller. If you read the previous threads the arguement for and reasons are given by several posters in this thread.
Ps make your own mind up after getting the information from said posts but as with all posts on this and other brewing subjects read between the lines as everything stated is not always a proven fact and some of the people who do chill have never done no chill so are only going on what they have read, respect to those that have and have a alternative view to mine as I say it is something that is not as critical with modern malts as it used to be IMO

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

but this bit is just wrong ... ... that's not at all inevitable ... and the cans of food that are almost definitely in your kitchen cupboards are testament to how bacterial contamination can actually be reduced, using some of the techniques that no-chillers might use. You've recognised that the HSA problem may shift from the pro to the con side of the argument dependant on whether no chillers use a cube, but failed to recognise the pasteurisation principles at play when no-chilling in a cube and the impacts that can have shifting "inevitable" cons into possible pros

Like Baron says ...
Cheers, PhilB

Are you sure? I got the impression most of the no-chill advocates here aren't using cubes. When food is canned, it doesn't matter how long it takes to cool down as nothing can get into the can once it's sealed. An open container of wort will as Anna said be inevitably more at risk. Could the OP and any no-chill advocates state in their posts whether by 'no-chill' they mean the Australian cube method, or just leaving it to chill in an open container?

 

[JT_Brews]

Could the OP and any no-chill advocates state in their posts whether by 'no-chill' they mean the Australian cube method, or just leaving it to chill in an open container?

Speaking for myself I just cover the top of the vessel with cling film to block anything from getting in while it cools. I personally have never had an infected batch and my view is that while santisation and cleanliness are obviously important many homebrewers seem to be unnecessarily paranoid. If getting an infection was as easy as some people make out I should have had one by now with all of the dodgy mistakes I've made since I started.

 

[Buffers brewery]

put two chillers in series, one in an old FV filled with water and a whole big chunk of ice or ice pack.

I do this in the summer months when the mains water supply is “warm”.

 

[DocAnna]

Ok there's been some comment about evidence, fact and opinion. In my summary of the arguments for and against chlling I have tried to differentiate between opinion and evidence:

For canning, this is not comparable to cubing since the regulations for canned food require brief heating to achieve commercial preservation. This varies with the acidity and type of food, typically 3mins at 250F (121C) (though 0.5- 6 mins is quoted as the range with typical foods). US food and safety regs for example https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/FSRE_SS_3PrinciplesThermal.pdf?redirecthttp=true

Pasteurisation arguments about temperature over time below boiling, relates to removal of pathogens to low enough level to store foodstuffs when refrigerated for longer periods. Since wort is not fermented at refrigerated (<5C), and that spoilage organisms aren't necessarily pathogenic, the idea of pasteurisation being as effective as sterilisation doesn't apply in this setting:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B012227055X001590
Applying these arguments to beer specifically is laid out in this article:
https://beerandwinejournal.com/botulism/Low incidence, high impact risk relating to botulism contamination, a v low risk but high impact.

For a detailed review of the microbial environment in wort to beer this is actually quite readable:
https://mmbr.asm.org/content/77/2/157With the following pertinent quote:

Following the mash, wort is boiled for an extended period, effectively sterilizing the wort. However, wort is a nutrient-rich, high-pH (∼5.5) medium, so once it leaves the kettle it is vulnerable to opportunistic spoilage agents if appropriate precautions are not taken to ensure rapid fermentation, which serves to stabilize the wort against most contaminants.​

So to go back to my previous comments, yes each to their own. This is all about risk reduction/mitigation. As with all risks many people will not see the risk become an issue due to the low frequency of the risk, but that doesn't mean the risk doesn't exist. ie just because you haven't had a problem with no chill doesn't mean it's not a risk.

It is of course an individual decision whether to take the risks that relate to no chill and indeed you may spend a lifetime brewing and not experience a problem, but it is important to do so with eyes open to the concerns and recognition that those concerns are indeed evidence based and valid.

Anna (apologies for getting all academic again... bit of a habit, sorry)

 

[BeerCat]

I gave up using a chiller about a year ago. Beer will stay fresh in a cube for a long time and saves time and hassle.

 

[terrym]

So if I wanted to carry out a no-chill in a 'cube' where would I get one from in the UK.
What do others use? FV? Old PB that won't hold pressure (I have two of those )
Years ago I used a plastic sherry container cube for racking which I scrounged from a Berni Inn (remember them?), but haven't seen anything like that for ages.

 

[Mrhandsome]

So I guess no one ghetto chills using frozen 2l bottles like me then? 3 2l bottles in my 20l pot, and an ice Bath in the sink does the trick

 

[The Baron]

So if I wanted to carry out a no-chill in a 'cube' where would I get one from in the UK.
What do others use? FV? Old PB that won't hold pressure (I have two of those )
Years ago I used a plastic sherry container cube for racking which I scrounged from a Berni Inn (remember them?), but haven't seen anything like that for ages.

Hi Terry I use my FV which really is not as good as using a cube as you can not remove all the air, I put it in the FV then airlock it and I personally have never had a problem oh yes transfer to the Fv at @ 85c so that it has cooled slightly(so as not to affect the plastic) or after whirlpooling which I do usually at 90C for upto 30 mins so the temp drops to about 75C.
I have a cube but do not use it much and I think I got mine off Ebay for around £7-£8 approx P.s make sure it is food grade is it HDPE ? someone will advise 100%

 

[HarryFlatters]

So if I wanted to carry out a no-chill in a 'cube' where would I get one from in the UK

I use one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Litre-Jerr...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

And as The Baron says, make sure it's food safe HDPE.