Water Chemistry!

[MyQul]

On the side of my brupaks calcium chloride as well as other stuff just came through the post it reads,

INSTRUCTIONS
Dry water treatment salts are difficult to dissolve in water. It is preferable therefore to mix the salts into the dry grist prior to mashing. Extract brewers should add the salt directly to the copper at the beginning of the boil.

What is the meaning of this outrage? all my calculations are based upon treating the entire 32-34 litres of water that I usually need to make 23 litres of beer. Does this mean that we need to make a calculation for the mash and a separate calculation for the boil? why are they difficult to dissolve. whats makes it easier for them to dissolve. Any ideas?

If your adjusting the alkalinity of water you treat the water as a whole but with salts, when you use a calculator it should tell you to add X amount to the mash and X amount to the boil (it used to do that on our old forum water calc. Have'nt used the brewers fiend one so don't know if it does the above)

 

[mirsultankhan]

Surely it just means AG brewers add to the mash. For the total quantity of water used. Extract brewers don't mash, so add it to the boil.

For the total water used for the Mash or the total water used for the Mash and the boil? If its just for the Mash then this appears to me to be problematic as the amounts (anything below a quarter of a teaspoon are difficult to measure)

 

[mirsultankhan]

If your adjusting the alkalinity of water you treat the water as a whole but with salts, when you use a calculator it should tell you to add X amount to the mash and X amount to the boil (it used to do that on our old forum water calc. Have'nt used the brewers fiend one so don't know if it does the above)

I use the brewersfriend one , it treats the entire quantity of water giving the reasoning that it tries to emulate as if you were (by way of example) using water from the Trent.

 

[MyQul]

try the one on jims beer kit. I think it's like our old one

 

[clibit]

For the total water used for the Mash or the total water used for the Mash and the boil? If its just for the Mash then this appears to me to be problematic as the amounts (anything below a quarter of a teaspoon are difficult to measure)

I suspect you add it all at the outset to all the water you are using, because it will all go through the mash/sparge process. Breweries that used naturally sourced water (we read about Burton water from the Trent, and Liffey water in Dublin) will have used the water as it is and not treated it during the brewing process. So you need to treat all the water you will use to get the profile that you want before you brew.

I'm probably talking complete ********, but it makes sense to me. :-)

I guess brewing has advanced and breweries may well adjust water at different stages to suit the mash PH and then the boil requirements, but I'm a guy who brews on his cooker in a cheap pot, and yet I make beer I prefer to Marstons and Guinness. Strangely.

 

[MyQul]

try the one on jims beer kit. I think it's like our old one

just had a look. I don't think jims is the same as our old one. I REALLY need to find a water calc a simple as our old one all the others I've come across are too complicated for me

 

[MyQul]

just had a look. I don't think jims is the same as our old one. I REALLY need to find a water calc a simple as our old one all the others I've come across are too complicated for me

Result!! Managed to find our old water calc using google

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/water.php

My Google-fu is strong!

 

[mirsultankhan]

the brewers friend simple one is easy peasy, the brewers friend advanced one is torture

 

[clibit]

Result!! Managed to find out old water calc using google

You're a mod - sort it out. ;-) :-D

Good news that it can be found still -will have a google.

 

[MyQul]

You're a mod - sort it out. ;-) :-D

Good news that it can be found still -will have a google.

I've edited my above post and done a linky

 

[clibit]

I've edited my above post and done a linky

Excellent - cheers.

 

[mirsultankhan]

the old one is more simple but the values it gives are more excessive than the brewers friend one.

 

[MyQul]

the old one is more simple but the values it gives are more excessive than the brewers friend one.

Seemed to work for me so I'm sticking with it

 

[clibit]

the old one is more simple but the values it gives are more excessive than the brewers friend one.

The excessive amounts are easier to measure. :thumb: :lol:

 

[mirsultankhan]

yes but check out the difference

Brewers friend calculator 33 litres
Style - London porter, Dark Beers

Chalk CaCO3 10g add 2.63 tsp
Baking Soda NaHCO3 2g add 0.45 tsp
Gypsum CaSO4 1g add 0.25 tsp
Calcium Chloride CaCl2 3g add 0.88 tsp
Epsom Salt MgSO4 2g add 0.44 tsp


Water Treatment Old school
Style Stout - 33 litres
Mash volume 13 litres

0 millilitres Carbonate Reducing Solution

Gypsum added to mash: 0.84 grams
Chalk added to mash: 0.7 grams

Gypsum added to boiler: 1.3 grams
Table Salt added to boiler: 5.9 grams
Epsom Salts added to boiler: 2.98 grams
Calcium Chloride added to boiler: 15.36 grams

 

[clibit]

Wow! I was joking but see what you mean. Especially the Chloride and the table salt.

I made a stout using the old calculator and added loads of chloride and didn't like it. So stopped adding chloride. I'll compare these two calculators with the Graham Wheeler one and see what that does. These two seem to hit two extremes?

 

[mirsultankhan]

Wow! I was joking but see what you mean. Especially the Chloride and the table salt.

I made a stout using the old calculator and added loads of chloride and didn't like it. So stopped adding chloride. I'll compare these two calculators with the Graham Wheeler one and see what that does. These two seem to hit two extremes?

Yes. I am am even finding that there is even variation within brewers friend, for example between the simple water profile calculator and the more complicated one, differences for the very same style profile! gulp!

 

[mirsultankhan]

The GW one seems the best as it calculates the values for you.

 

[MyQul]

Looking at the differences in salts between the two calculators, there's quite some difference.

Tbh, I mostly focus on alkalitity adjustment as this was the main reason for my Bitters coming out so mediore. The old forum calc (OFC) is good for calculating how much CRS you need to add and seemed to work well. Perhaps it's not so good for salts additions as things can get get so darn complicated, as I see your finding out, and the OFC might be a bit too simple for this area of water adjustment

 

[clibit]

I've messed with the GW one before but without all the relevant data. Thanks to MyQul sending me an alkalinity test kit a few weeks ago i now have it all, and the GW calculator feels good. The results are much closer to the old HBF one than the Brewersfriend one though. Lots of chloride in dark beers, and I'm not keen on that. Maybe I just don't like the chloride effect.