Water addition question - soft Scottish water

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In that screenshot above: That "Hardness and Alkalinity Results" is a load of bobbins - I wish it didn't have to be there, and so is "Ion Balance Results" bobbins, but I was using the "Cation/Anion Difference" for the "iterative" technique ... twiddling the "Bicarbonate (HCO3)" amount until it read mid-zero.
 
Using that water, a basic Pale Ale recipe, an anemic Bru'n Water "yellow, balanced" "American style" water profile and a grain bill of 2.5Kg (Pale Malt and 10% Crystal Malt) in 23L batch (boil-length mash ... BIAB style), I got a respectable mash pH of 5.39 (predicted) with no additional acid. But I'm not thumbing my nose at @DocAnna's remarks (Post #14): It wasn't straightforward trying to prove acid wasn't necessary. I made the mistake of not checking with you (@Blinky) what you want before blurting out that "don't add acid" remark! One overall policy of adding acid or not adding acid is not going to cover all possibilities! In fact, I was quite surprised how difficult it was to get a low predicted pH mash when using such soft water.
 
Thanks for all your work with this, I really appreciate it! So if I download the same spreadsheet and plug in the blue values I'm good to go?
 
Thanks for all your work with this, I really appreciate it! So if I download the same spreadsheet and plug in the blue values I'm good to go?
At the risk of incurring the wrath of @peebee, may I point you in the direction of Brewfather it has a built in water calculator.... I'm in no way qualified to say which is better, but I do like the point and click approach there.... just a thought.
 
Thanks for all your work with this, I really appreciate it! So if I download the same spreadsheet and plug in the blue values I'm good to go?
And I'm not recommending Bru'n Water! It just happens to be what I use. I did use "Mash-made-Easy" and should try it again. It's free! It's got a lot of user tweaking available. But it seems to have exited the "easy" bit in its title.

I do recommend finding a calculator that works around "bicarbonate" and not one of the older calculators that seem to be stuck with "carbonate" and insoluble "CaCO3" ("chalk"). And I can't recommend anything obsessed with Water Hardness, Alkalinity or (gawd forbid) "RA".
 
I use Rosebery A water as well Blinky and am venturing into the dark arts of water treatment for the first time this weekend for a NEIPA style but instead of gypsum I need extra salts so it’s calcium chloride for me. Only problem how much, Doc Anna suggested a couple of level teaspoons so I’m bowing to her knowledge and experience in this. To be honest it makes my head hurt.
Fingers crossed.
 
Use the calculator I linked to and plug in the values given by peebee, then for your yarget enter values from a Google search for NEIPA water and click calculate or update can't remember which and it will give you the amount of salts to add. Do let me know what you come up with and I can compare to my last brew and we can see if we get similar values
 
Use the calculator I linked to and plug in the values given by peebee, then for your yarget enter values from a Google search for NEIPA water and click calculate or update can't remember which and it will give you the amount of salts to add. Do let me know what you come up with and I can compare to my last brew and we can see if we get similar values

So I’ve been tinkering with the Brewfather water profile section and I’ve come up with this, I’ve gone beyond the automatic calculations to try and balance it a bit more.
What’s everyone’s take on it.
 

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So I’ve been tinkering with the Brewfather water profile section and I’ve come up with this, I’ve gone beyond the automatic calculations to try and balance it a bit more.
What’s everyone’s take on it.
From my reading, the sulphate is too high here - you'll note the style water profile is for Chloride to sulphate of about 2:1, whereas the water after your salts added here are almost balanced. The ratio here is the key component for a water profile for an NEIPA as described
here
https://learningtohomebrew.com/the-best-water-profile-for-neipa-new-england-ipa/and here
https://hazyandhoppy.com/water-treatment-for-new-england-ipas/
However.... there is debate, with Scott Janish taking a different view who argues for a 1:1 which is considered here:
https://thirdleapbrew.com/technical/ward-labs-mineral-analysis-of-tree-house-julius/
 
... I’ve gone beyond the automatic calculations to try and balance it a bit more. ...
And I didn't? "Automatic calculations" ... I tried my "Alexa" device, but she didn't know, so I had to do it manually.

Now you've snatched this value for "HCO3" (22ppm) seemingly out of thin air? Come on ... I've been as transparent as possible with the figures I've produced; I think we should expect at least as much from you?
 
Calm down cupcake! I was following @Galena’s post earlier. If I’ve inserted something in the wrong place that’s my mistake, that’s why brewers without the necessary information like myself ask questions to gain the knowledge that experience brings.
Thanks @DocAnna I’ll read the bits you’ve sent at lunch.
 
... Feel free to have a look and tell me we if I’m going wrong somewhere. ...
Sorry, but have I got the right link? The issue was "alkalinity" or "bicarbonate" and the reference to it here is "zero"?

This "incident" has got me going over the Brewers Friend calculator though, and it's not something I'd taken much notice of otherwise. Yet it seems popular about here. There's always a silver-lining to be found.
 
I have to honest this whole additions malarkey is a head scratcher to a first timer. I’ve started again just using the information Scottish Water has online and tweaked from there. Hopefully everything turns out ok, it certainly not going to be awful.
Here’s a better original and tweaked water profile
IMG_2046.png
 
I have to honest this whole additions malarkey is a head scratcher to a first timer. I’ve started again just using the information Scottish Water has online and tweaked from there. Hopefully everything turns out ok, it certainly not going to be awful.
Here’s a better original and tweaked water profile
View attachment 86813
From my wholly biased perspective both this and the previous look absolutely fine. I think you'll find the most influential factor for an NEIPA will be oxygen contact during fermentation and handling, but yes this profile looks fine. Your thread though has got me thinking about water and it's influence on taste perception, particularly after reading Scott Janish and Gordon Strong, both who really know their stuff based on experience. Gordon describes adding salts by the tea/table spoon rather than mass, and one of the articles I referenced above illustrates just how different the salts are in the finished beer due to the contribution of the grain.

My take on this, well it looks like a good option for my dissertation for a start 😄. More seriously, I can definitely taste the difference between our tap water and something like San Pellegrino which is a high mineral water, and when I make non alcoholic carbonated drinks, the whole family really notice the difference if I add the salts to the diluting water. It appears though that the grain used makes a very significant contribution to the overall salts balance and I suspect that is what underlies some of the mixed ideas on 1:1 to 1:3 or greater sulphate to chloride ratios. This means that we can make educated guesses but getting the most out of an NEIPA from a water profile perspective probably means we need to make the same recipe more than once with different water profiles.
 
I have to honest this whole additions malarkey is a head scratcher to a first timer. I’ve started again just using the information Scottish Water has online and tweaked from there. Hopefully everything turns out ok, it certainly not going to be awful.
Here’s a better original and tweaked water profile
I agree I am scratching my head also over water additions . I was about to start adding additions to my water using Scottish Water report for my area Turret A which is obviously available online .Though it looks like I need to do a bit more research into this .
Is it worth getting a Water Report done? Or just go with what is available
 
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