Victorian Mild!

[patto1ro]

Ronald Pattinson, is that really you?

Just checked my verblijfsvergunning - yes, that is me.

 

[patto1ro]

Ah, you do get the hang of Edd's "conversions" after a bit! And "Vienna Malt" was one of mine anyway; Crisp Vienna = Crisp Mild malt.

(EDIT: The hop choices were mine too, damned if I was getting any "Cluster" hops in!)

But American hops are typical of that period's Mild Ales.

 

[peebee]

So was Jack-the-ripper, and I ain't getting one of them in either.

 

[peebee]

But American hops are typical of that period's Mild Ales.

But, I may repeat sentence to back up my fibs about the origin of "Mild" (above). I presume you are using "Mild" as a noun and not a verb adjective?

 

[chthon]

Just checked my verblijfsvergunning - yes, that is me.

Don't know if I have to use or

 

[patto1ro]

But, I may repeat sentence to back up my fibs about the origin of "Mild" (above). I presume you are using "Mild" as a noun and not a verb adjective?

How long do you have?

Mild Ale is a specific thing from the early 1800s. But you also had Mild Porter and, later, Mild Pale ale.

I could give you a fascinating talk on the topic of the use of "mild" in various brewing contexts. But that would cost 300 euros (plus VAT).

 

[peebee]

300 euros ... 300 euros ... tell yer what, I'll make up what I think you should say, and for 100 euros you keep yer trap shut?

Okay?

 

[patto1ro]

300 euros ... 300 euros ... tell yer what, I'll make up what I think you should say, and for 100 euros you keep yer trap shut?

Okay?

I'll take any 100 euros that's going, as an impoverished unemployed person.

 

[peebee]

I'll take any 100 euros that's going, as an impoverished unemployed person.

Right, excellent, I've just got to get it past the nurses ....

Okay you lot, you will ... hang on ...

(Wwwhat now? ... arrgh, not now, I've just star... okay ... coming ... ) 'nite all ... (okay? ... no, not that again ... noooo

 

[peebee]

Nurse said "no", but I was allowed a tenner to buy a kindle copy of "Mild!" by Ron Pattinson who has probably got a better reputation than that @patto1ro guy anyway.

Right, now I get to jabber my interpretation of this book's contents on this collection of readers ...

 

[chthon]

peebee stats: +10 Chaotic Good, your brain gets confused from his incantations...

 

[peebee]

I'm still reading this "Mild!" book. Surprisingly, the book does contain some sensible observations. I'll be back with a list of any rubbish I find later.

 

[Sadfield]

May, or may not be of interest.

 

[peebee]

May, or may not be of interest.

No interest to me, because I was watching it while you posted it on here!

Martyn's approach, to me, is that he doesn't try to separate "mild" from "Mild" except perhaps the "modern" Mild appearing about the world wars, and what had gone before.

Ron Pattinson is much the same in not clearly separating "mild" from "Mild, but he does talk of "mild pale ales" and "mild porters" as being quite distinct from modern "Mild". But I'm still trawling through his work (Mild! Mega book edition) and got miles to go yet.

I'm still keen to find the switch between "Mild" and "mild", but seem to have got off to a bad start reading way too much into that Invert No.4 addition in one recipe I looked at. There is the possibility that no clear line exists between "Mild" and "mild" (note I've stopped trying to use the noun/adjective boundary which I've had a disastrous attempt to use it before and only proved I'm no good at grammar).

 

[Edd The Brew]

Ey Up peebee
Here's a belting 4 d Mild Ale from 1884
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2021/04/w-b-mew-langton-co-4-d-mild-ale-no-38.htmlCheers
Edd

 

[Sadfield]

There is the possibility that no clear line exists between "Mild" and "mild"

I find the above video interesting for this very point. Centuries of brewing history condensed and simplified, showing Porter, Mild, Old/Stale, Bitter and Lager to be styles that are constantly evolving, and going in and out of fashion. Changes largely the result of influences from outside the brewhouse. Any possible demarcation being when old/stock/stale went out of fashion and something else filled the void of being the antithesis to 'Mild'.

 

[peebee]

Ey Up peebee
Here's a belting 4 d Mild Ale from 1884
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2021/04/w-b-mew-langton-co-4-d-mild-ale-no-38.htmlCheers
Edd

Cracking! It fits what I'm trying to define as Mild too, though perhaps a tad strong, but not as strong as the Pale Ales (about 1.060 seemed common for a "basic" pale ale). But mostly because it's called "4d mild ale", which Martyn Cornell talks about in that video @Sadfield posted ("4 Ale Bar" 'cos the mild ale cost 4d a quart).

But I'm beginning to think there's not be a set formula to determine whether it's "mild" or a "Mild". But that don't matter, I can still see "Victorian Mild!" isn't a fallacy so this thread still stands up!

And the recipe goes on the "to brew" list.

Question? Does the "demerara sugar" equate to Invert Sugar in the original document? No.1 Invert by today's definition. Only ask 'cos I'm exploring the options with "Invert Sugars" and have Golden Syrup down as No.1 Invert's direct replacement, but I'm not sure even Lyle's Golden Syrup is based on raw cane these days whereas demerara can be.

The "Crisp Scottish Ale Malt" sounds like a pain to get hold of. Looks like their "mild ale malt" (aka Vienna malt, and no doubt "table malt") should do the job.

 

[Edd The Brew]

Ey Up peebee,
Cracking! It fits what I'm trying to define as Mild too, though perhaps a tad strong, but not as strong as the Pale Ales (about 1.060 seemed common for a "basic" pale ale). But mostly because it's called "4d mild ale", which Martyn Cornell talks about in that video @Sadfield posted ("4 Ale Bar" 'cos the mild ale cost 4d a quart).
I've applied the Mild Ale moniker , in the Brewing Books, it's written as " 4 d " .

But I'm beginning to think there's not be a set formula to determine whether it's "mild" or a "Mild". But that don't matter, I can still see "Victorian Mild!" isn't a fallacy so this thread still stands up!
Indeed, I've found that it's safer to analyse the records and convert to recipies to get an idea of the range of beers brewed rather than relying on the generalized assumptions that all X Ales are Milds, Viz Peter Walker & Sons
XXX from 1891-2 is, a Pale Ale

Question? Does the "demerara sugar" equate to Invert Sugar in the original document? ;
No , just there as A sugar , Invert not stated , as it is with other beers in those records.
No.1 Invert by today's definition. Only ask 'cos I'm exploring the options with "Invert Sugars" and have Golden Syrup down as No.1 Invert's direct replacement, but I'm not sure even Lyle's Golden Syrup is based on raw cane these days whereas demerara can be.
Right oh, if you're using Golden Syrup , it's closer to No 2 tbh , No 1 Invert is almost colourless .

The "Crisp Scottish Ale Malt" sounds like a pain to get hold of. Looks like their "mild ale malt" (aka Vienna malt, and no doubt "table malt") should do the job.
Not sure if you can get hold of any over here, but Craftsman Malt's Vienna is Floor Malted
Cheers
Edd

 

[peebee]

... There is the possibility that no clear line exists between "Mild" and "mild" ...

I find the above video interesting for this very point. Centuries of brewing history condensed and simplified, showing Porter, Mild, Old/Stale, Bitter and Lager to be styles that are constantly evolving, and going in and out of fashion. Changes largely the result of influences from outside the brewhouse. Any possible demarcation being when old/stock/stale went out of fashion and something else filled the void of being the antithesis to 'Mild'.

True 'nough. Condensing the history does make "demarcations" easier. But I'm getting the impression I could have picked any time 'tween 1820 and 1920 as the moment "mild" ale became "Mild" ale. This "Mild!" book I'm reading is just overloading me with stuff I can invent all sorts of "demarcations" with. My choice of 1880 was already under doubt 'cos I was possibly seeing the effects of the Americans beating the cr&p out of each other and also the steady decline of Porter.

That's another thing this "Mild! (Mega Book Series)" book has done; reminded me I've got a copy of "Porter! (Mega Book Series)". So I've got distracted from this Mild thread and should head over to the Porter one ...

 

[patto1ro]

No interest to me, because I was watching it while you posted it on here!

Martyn's approach, to me, is that he doesn't try to separate "mild" from "Mild" except perhaps the "modern" Mild appearing about the world wars, and what had gone before.

Ron Pattinson is much the same in not clearly separating "mild" from "Mild, but he does talk of "mild pale ales" and "mild porters" as being quite distinct from modern "Mild". But I'm still trawling through his work (Mild! Mega book edition) and got miles to go yet.

I'm still keen to find the switch between "Mild" and "mild", but seem to have got off to a bad start reading way too much into that Invert No.4 addition in one recipe I looked at. There is the possibility that no clear line exists between "Mild" and "mild" (note I've stopped trying to use the noun/adjective boundary which I've had a disastrous attempt to use it before and only proved I'm no good at grammar).

I find it very easy to differentiate between "Mild" and "mild". One is amadjective and the other is a noun. Really Mild is shorthand for Mild Ale. The style is really Ale, not Mild. Whereas the adjective mild can be used to describe any style of beer. There's no confusion at all in my mind between the two.

As for when Mild Ale became a specific style, that's probably around 1800.