"The BJCP Provisional Beer Styles and BeerSmith"

[Big_Eight]

Why is there one for Europe?
By all means let the USian brewers associations set parameters for their own competitions, but let them also keep their noses out of everybody else's business. I've looked at these so called "guidelines" (read "decrees") and they're pretty naff for many European styles as well as English styles.

Email them and ask lol.

I will say one thing though Gordon Strong is a hell of a brewer. I'm not condoning the BJCP debacle.

 

[The Baron]

He may be a good brewer but it does not give him the right to pigeon hole English beer to suit the BJCP.
English beer is historical and not to be changed to suit

 

[Big_Eight]

He may be a good brewer but it does not give him the right to pigeon hole English beer to suit the BJCP.
English beer is historical and not to be changed to suit

Nobody ever said that and I agree with you.

 

[Agentgonzo]

He may be a good brewer but it does not give him the right to pigeon hole English beer to suit the BJCP.

Well as chief whatever of the BJCP it gives him the right to do whatever he likes with the BJCP.

But it doesn't mean we need to listen to him.

 

[The Baron]

I think we need to get onto the English BJCP judges first to have More/English style for people who want to enter English competitions, me I will just do as I have always done and make them to my style and do not need a badge/medal to say my beers are good as they would mark me down for not been Americanised/English ales

 

[Agentgonzo]

I think we need to get onto the English BJCP judges first to have More/English style for people who want to enter English competitions, me I will just do as I have always done and make them to my style and do not need a badge/medal to say my beers are good as they would mark me down for not been Americanised/English ales

From what I've seen, most big comps seem to be run by/in conjunction with CAMRA, where they seem to judge the beers more on their own individual merits than a BJCP-supplied ticklist/pigeon-hole.

 

[The Baron]

I didn't know that Agent as I have never bothered entering a competition

 

[peebee]

... and later coke, made from "sea-coal" ...

I realise some folks haven't a clue what I'm referring to here. So:

"Sea coal"! A big bit, hence, a 50p piece for scale. Gathered from a NE English beach near Warkworth where I lived 12 or 15 years ago. Used to burn it in the fire (no serious environment concern back then), but it's pretty mucky stuff. It's quite buoyant, so washes up regularly on the tide.


I just want to distance myself from the use of "American" in this thread. I (and I guess others) don't really mean "America", only some people and groups who just happen to be American. I get the feeling that @Big_Eight (Colorado, USA) is getting a bit defensive with this seemingly prejudice language floating about.



[P.S. Not all the coal on English Northsea coasts is natural "sea coal" scoured from sub-sea seams. As the 1970s film "Get Carter" testifies:

]

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’m just going to say I like the BJCP Style Guide. OK, just a little more…

For people with a genuine and serious interest in brewing heritage the BJCP guide is worse than useless and it would probably be best if they didn’t comment at all on history - there’s nowhere near enough information in any case.

For people like me that love beer more than history the BJCP Style Guide is a useful quick reference. It does a good enough job to allow me to brew a broad range of beers that meet a generalised view of the characteristics of the style.

Anyway, I’m off to the pub now. All this talk of beer has got me thirsty.

 

[peebee]

... For people like me that love beer more than history the BJCP Style Guide is a useful quick reference. It does a good enough job to allow me to brew a broad range of beers that meet a generalised view of the characteristics of the style. ...

Ah ... that's why I earlier wrote:

... It began to dawn on me a couple of years ago sitting in a Sicilian bar ... drinking a "Russian Imperial Stout". A what?

The BJCP style guide doesn't just pass on its "paint-by-numbers" approach to homebrewers (where it is perhaps welcome, especially by new starters), it is having an impact on many commercial beers around the world. Destroying beer heritage across the globe!

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Ah ... that's why I earlier wrote:

The BJCP style guide doesn't just pass on its "paint-by-numbers" approach to homebrewers (where it is perhaps welcome, especially by new starters), it is having an impact on many commercial beers around the world. Destroying beer heritage across the globe!

…or becoming part of that heritage - for better or worse

 

[The Baron]

So a question what do you call your beers (this is for everybody)that do not tick all the BJCP descriptive because according to them it is not to style?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

So a question what do you call your beers (this is for everybody)that do not tick all the BJCP descriptive because according to them it is not to style?

What ever I want as I never enter competition.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

So a question what do you call your beers (this is for everybody)that do not tick all the BJCP descriptive because according to them it is not to style?

If I brewed a particular style but didn’t quite fall within spec - eg a Belgian Tripel that is half a percent low on ABV, I’d still call it what I intended to brew.

Something that falls between stools like an ale that is a little too low on IBU for an IPA might be a pale ale (or a golden ale if it’s not as hoppy as intended).

 

[Agentgonzo]

So a question what do you call your beers (this is for everybody)that do not tick all the BJCP descriptive because according to them it is not to style?

Often "beer" . But otherwise they just get called the light/dark/pale/blonde/hoppy/Belgian one as appropriate. Or the closest style that I think is right, even if it's outside the BJCP range - it's not like the beer police come and check.

 

[peebee]

…or becoming part of that heritage - for better or worse

Unfortunately, you're probably very correct with that comment.

It happened eons ago to the likes of "Ale". I'm not a historian, I used to hate "history" at school, but was forced (by me!) to try and be one to brew anything like a 17/18th C. "Ale". Just going by gathered hints, that "Ale" I have ready for Xmas is based on "Stitch" as mentioned in "London & Country" 1736 publication. There's a rather badly translated recipe in CAMRA's "Homebrew Classics Stout and Porter" (some elements incorrectly ordered; bad proof reading!).

But "Colonial Williamsburg" (Alewerks?) have a "recreation" ("Old Stitch") based on the sort of garbage BJCP puts out. Something fizzy and in a bottle not even remotely like what the real thing could have been. A comment (anonymous, 2016) about it goes:

Not only has Clark created a beverage that comes about as close as possible to those enjoyed daily in the 18th century, but he has created a winner by modern standards, too. Old Stitch was recently named best brown ale in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast by the United States Beer Tasting Championship (an award that Clark elaborates on in this Past & Present podcast).

Geesh!

In a few years' time, will everyone have to go to the (ongoing) effort I'm going through with "Ale" to get an estimation of what "British 20th C. Bitter" (for example) was like?

 

[The Baron]

Often "beer" . But otherwise they just get called the light/dark/pale/blonde/hoppy/Belgian one as appropriate. Or the closest style that I think is right, even if it's outside the BJCP range - it's not like the beer police come and check.

This is what blows my mind and maybe its just how I look at things but if I brew what I believe a English Bitter it screws with me that the BJCP tell me its not

 

[Agentgonzo]

This is what blows my mind and maybe its just how I look at things but if I brew what I believe a English Bitter it screws with me that the BJCP tell me its not

One of the BJCP examples of an English Bitter is "Greene King IPA". Surely that would be an example of an IPA?

 

[Pennine]

Well as much as you are seeing this played out in the standards, I am experiencing in real time over here. There has been only one place I have been that has some very decent cask offerings that makes me think could pass in a pub over there. Every other time I have had a British beer, it's quite a disappointing experience. This is realtively infrequent though as most places complain a bitter just doesn't sell in the US and they don't make them because of that. No blame on the quality of the product of course.

However the real travesty over here is what is termed as Belgian beer, over sweet and spiced tripels and mucky sour fruited wit's. Even when you can readily get bottled offerings of all the classics.

Anyway I get the frustration about accuracy in styles and how it can translate to lowering the overall quality of beer.

 

[Agentgonzo]

However the real travesty over here is what is termed as Belgian beer, over sweet and spiced tripels and mucky sour fruited wit's. Even when you can readily get bottled offerings of all the classics.

The American mindset is "more is more". So if a traditional trippel has sweet and spicy flavours, then surely you could make it even better by making it sweeter, and even spicier... And don't forget higher in alcohol!

It blows my mind that a "standard" American IPA is 6-7% these days.