UK Bottled Water brands

[peebee]

My water from Severn Trent is stated as “very hard” Clark 22.07 whato that is, and the ph is an average of 7.41 so would that be classed as high alkalinity?

There's a not very good table on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water: If you can battle with the "not very good" you can determine your "Clark°" measure divided by 0.7016 is Harness in French°. Why do that? French° x10 is mg/L "as CaCO3". Oh glory, glory, ... so, you've got 22.07/0.7016x10 = 314.57mg/L "as CaCO3". Still not very useful, but if you multiply by 0.4 you get the amount of Calcium ... 125.83mg/L ... but my favourite way is divide by 50 (nice round number) to get mEq/L ... 6.29mEq/L of Calcium. Only need a magic number to apply to that (rummage, rummage ... ah, here we go ...) 20.039x6.29 = 126.05mg/L of Calcium.

There's a bit of a problem, that Calcium number contains your Magnesium masquerading as Calcium. Sorry, that's just the way of "Hardness". And "Alkalinity", it will be all "bicarbonate" at pH 7.41, but you haven't provided enough information to extract that yet.

Tell you what. Take all those really simple sums to @MashBag and ask him what he thinks ... (He said, what? ... He did, WHAT! ... well I'm not putting me hand in there to get them out again.) ... Fortunately!

... You don't need all that "Hardness" codswallop, so no loss! ... Unfortunately! Severn Trent tie up information you do need in all that "Hardness" twaddle, but you're in luck ... I happen to know someone who wrote a spreadsheet to extract the good stuff from this pile of poo. Yeah, it's my "Defuddler"! Link below in my signature. Get the "development" version, haven't tested it in Google Sheets (free) or LibreOffice Calc (free) yet but it was developed in Microsoft Excel 365 and should work in any of them.


[EDIT: Silly me, I multiplied by 0.7016 instead of divided ... corrected! Now 126.05mg/L Ca ... that's "hard"!]

 

[Galena]

you can determine your "Clark°" measure multiplied by 0.7016 is Harness in French°. Why do that? French° x10 is mg/L "as CaCO3

OK I will bite and I will admit maths is not my strong point so I may be missing something here, but if the above is correct and I take from my water report
4.21 Clarke and multiply by 0.7016 I would get 2.95 Degrees French right?
However my water report lists degrees French as 6.01.?

 

[peebee]

OK I will bite ...

4.21 / 0.7016 = 6.00 !!!

Flippin' Heck, I stuck the inverse in (multiplied instead of divided). Thank you very much! It's actually the first time my "personal policy" has worked properly: I'm as open as can be with all me numbers in the hope someone goes to the trouble of checking them! That magic number off the int'net is just a tiny, tiny, bit out too, happens elsewhere too ... not enough to worry about though.

@SMP Brewery: I've cocked up those numbers, give me a moment and I'll just edit them ... I don't think the "edit timer" has runout yet?

I'm not usually so slack .... I'll go for a lie-down!

 

[SMP Brewery]

EDIT: Silly me, I multiplied by 0.7016 instead of divided ... corrected! Now 126.05mg/L Ca ... that's "hard"!

Which is why I’ve started using Ashbeck for my lagers and think they’ve improved quit a lot

 

[peebee]

I've got some measures off @SMP Brewery so here's the results he wanted from my latest (development) "Defuddler":

This is the "business end" with the majority of user input (and all the output). The "workings" are below this, but only two or three extra potential entries for a user. This source report, by Severn Trent, has no values for Calcium or Magnesium so needed those deeper entries: Just "Total Hardness" in this case ... I know the primary aim of the "Defuddler" is to be rid of "Hardness", but when it's all you've got to come up with Calcium and Magnesium values, so be it. The "split" for high hardness values is 72% Calcium, rest Magnesium, as per Kai Toaster's calulations (Braukaiser.com); "Hardness" has no ability to define the split. Note: The Magnesium has been "decloaked" and no-longer pretends to be Calcium, so the figures don't appear to add up like in earlier posts.

Nitrate has been estimated to "fit" with the water's source ... it has a small effect on calculating "Alkalinity". "Alkalinity" has been calculated to fit with the other measurements. 312mg/L as Bicarbonate ... that's high!

You can cut the "Alkalinity" down with acids. This water will need quite a lot! You can also dilute it with bottled water. Again, with this water you'd need quite a lot! You might just use bottled water alone. I'm not sure if the "analysis" printed on the bottles has to be particularily accurate though?

But don't forget, one of the oldest brew pubs in the UK exists in Shropshire. One of the "famous four" brew pubs that managed to cling on during the 1970s, 1980s. The Three Tuns - Bishop's Castle. I don't think they pop down to Tesco's for their water ... what do they do?



[EDIT: Updated screenshot (and downloads) to further put "Hardness" and its associates ("as CaCO3") further in the background where it belongs. Even "RA" has changed to Kolbach's equation ... it will come as a surprise to some that it doesn't include any hint of "Hardness"; err, it surprised me!]

 

[MashBag]

Tell you what. Take all those really simple sums to @MashBag and ask him what he thinks ... (He said, what? ... He did, WHAT! ... well I'm not putting me hand in there to get them out again.) ... Fortunately!

 

[SMP Brewery]

But don't forget, one of the oldest brew pubs in the UK exists in Shropshire. One of the "famous four" brew pubs that managed to cling on during the 1970s, 1980s. The Three Tuns - Bishop's Castle. I don't think they pop down to Tesco's for their water ... what do they do?

Can’t remember if it’s co-op or Tescos at the bottom of the high street, you never know.

Cheers for doing this I’m making a hoppy beer tomorrow so after feeding the values in it doesn’t need much additions apart from a bit of gypsum, HCO is miles out but I’m ok with that. It does however need 10ml of Lactic Acid.

 

[peebee]

Can’t remember if it’s co-op or Tescos at the bottom of the high street, you never know.

I do know!

We had a "Tesco's" in Derby. I used to go there with me Mum. I'd always be fed up 'cos I wasn't allowed to sit in the seat of the trolly. I was too old, and it was for babies apparently. But it was also a fascinating experience, a "supermarket" not a corner shop.

When it moved the place eventually became a car spares store ... that's the size of supermarkets back then. Everyone one would have considered it lunacy to sell bottled water in the 1960s.

A Tesco's in Bishop's Castle in the 1960s or 1970s? I doubt it. The brewery probably used whatever came out o'tap (or down the river).

 

[SMP Brewery]

I went to the Back to Backs in Birmingham the other week and in the courtyard was the wash room. The ladies would fetch the water in the morning, heat it up in a big vat and then do the washing, after they’d finished, they’d again go to the well to fill up the vat and heat it up ready for when the men got back from work. They would then proceed to brew beer in it, leaving it overnight to cool so it could be filled into bottles and the whole cycle would begin again for another family or group.

The road down to the well is now called Ladywell Walk.

Not sure I can go further of topic so apologies to the op.

 

[Galena]

We had a "Tesco's" in Derby.

The one in Mickleover? If so it was a Hillards before it was a Tesco

 

[peebee]

The one in Mickleover? ...

Nope. It was in Derby town centre. A (then) new "supermarket" in a new-fangled "shopping precinct". (It was even capped with a real "Disco" too, full of kids, later to include me, drinking the very "best" "keg" beers ... and a car-park if you could afford a car). The UK I guess wanted to catchup with all things "American". Emm, hasn't it started again? This time with just Beer?

Laughable really ... the "shopping precinct" is still there (I think?): Difficult to find, 'cos it's much smaller than a modern supermarket!

 

[peebee]

I think I've found it: See Derby's Main Centre before it was flattened to make way for Intu

So much for "is still there (I think?)"!

 

[Galena]

Yeh I only ever passed through to get to the Eagle Centre, though I was a member of Caesars Gym for a while.
The nearest I got was Cleo's nightclub across the road.

 

[peebee]

Sorry @SMP Brewery; don't know what happened with that edit to my earlier piccie/post (it was the defaults, not your water at all). But here's a replacement:

I'll try not to get rushed in future! I think you had a good earlier copy from before I edited the thing (disasterously!).

 

[dad_of_jon]

This is what i've collected over a few years.

I was looking for the lowest ph to use with star san. when I used bottled water to brew I always used chase spring as the liquor. chase spring usually being available as the cheap own brands for tesco & lidl but was also in asda for a time. Nestle also vary between oakwood and lightwood which have different mineral levels

 

[Galena]

View attachment 102847

This is what i've collected over a few years.

I was looking for the lowest ph to use with star san. when I used bottled water to brew I always used chase spring as the liquor. chase spring usually being available as the cheap own brands for tesco & lidl but was also in asda for a time. Nestle also vary between oakwood and lightwood which have different mineral levels

Here is another you can add to your records if you like:
Buxton Water
Calcium 55
Magnesium 19
Sodium 24
Bicarbonate 248
Chloride 34
Sulphate 17
Nitrate <0.1
Ph at Source 7.4