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You won't be far wrong with a teaspoon of DWB and the same of AMS
Simple Water Treatment for an Idiot!
- Thread starter David Woods
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peebee
Out of Control
Ha! You shouldn't have said:
I for one took you at your word! "Water" is a wonderful subject for kicking off predictable arguments! Although I had predicted more participants.
Battle Brewery should help for simple advice with your water. They told me "We don't do ought".
Sadfield
Landlord.
Further confirmation that helping wasn't the motivation.
But finally, some simple advice. Do nowt. Great.
I suggest you go back to the first few posts and follow their advice. And then the later advice for adding gypsum or DWB.
Reduce alkalinity in your water by either dilution, boiling or acid addition.
Or add acid to the mash to reduce pH.
But finally, some simple advice. Do nowt. Great.
I suggest you go back to the first few posts and follow their advice. And then the later advice for adding gypsum or DWB.
Reduce alkalinity in your water by either dilution, boiling or acid addition.
Or add acid to the mash to reduce pH.
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peebee
Out of Control
Thank you too!
You might claim it was "inadvertent", but we don't often get such an unusual water supply to argue about! ... Low calcium, high sodium, high (ish) alkalinity. I'm mashing what I've learnt here into a package that should help others too.
I reposted a summary of your query elsewhere (where there are individuals frighteningly capable of handling these bizarre situations!) and quickly got some answers to the conundrum:
https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84176
Some of the answers high-lighted an error I made with an argument I placed above! The Administrators here have kindly deleted the post here with those same errors (a screenshot of Bru'n Water). The errors actually worked against me! Bru'n Water, with the correct numbers, will say "Water Report is unbalanced. The Cation and Anion totals should be within 0.5meq/L of each other". An earlier post of a calculator available on this site (by Graham Wheeler) displays the same imbalance, but no-one picked-up on it (including the author of the post containing it!).
So:
-> Do as "Battle Brewery" (nothing!). Can't be simpler, but they do it as a matter of policy ("no chemicals").
-> @MashBag might be closest here with an "active" simple solution: Post #42
-> Don't forget to clear the chlorine out (I often forget!) ... a tiny scrap of sodium/potassium metabisulphite (e.g. a bit of "Camden tablet") does it.
-> Avoid boiling your water to reduce alkalinity ... it may not do much in this situation ('cos of all that sodium) but it will still burn a hole in your pocket! I'm still checking it. Alkalinity may not need reducing anyway, the SE Water report is very misleading (err ... I mean wrong!).
Hi Dave.
You wanted simple so here goes…
Based on where you live, to 30 litres of tap water add 6ml lactic acid and half a campden tablet, crushed. The lactic acid will help get the mash pH to where you want it. The campden tablet will remove chlorine, and chloramine if it’s been added to your water by the water company (left untreated these can add a medicinal taste).
If you’re brewing a pale hoppy beer also add a teaspoon of calcium sulphate (gypsum) to accentuate the dry, hoppy, bitter characteristics of the beer.
Or
If you’re brewing something malty add a teaspoon of calcium chloride to accentuate the sweet, malty, softer characteristics of your malty beer.
If it happens to be a NEIPA use the instructions for a malty ale. NEIPAs are a special case.
David Woods
Well-Known Member
Thanks for additional info and for all the other input - this is a perfect start for me I can then start learning more and hopfully make some drinkable beers - can't wait as I now have my all in one and just need to gather the ingredients and make a (nervous) start. Anyone wants to try one - only £6 per pint! 
yes joking of course.
Thanks again
yes joking of course.Thanks again
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Sadfield
Landlord.
"An earlier post of a calculator available on this site (by Graham Wheeler) displays the same imbalance, but no-one picked-up on it (including the author of the post containing it!)."
They did, but it was close enough as the post was an example of how to fill in the form to return a workable example, without muddying the water further. The instructions with said form clearly states, "If the two figures are wildly different you may wish to jiggle the figures in line 2 until the two numbers are as close as you can get them". To reiterate a point made on numerous occasions, the OP only wanted a push in the right direction, to improve their water. The result, perfectly balanced or not, was to add acid (CRS) and gypsum, similar to the advice finally received from others.
They did, but it was close enough as the post was an example of how to fill in the form to return a workable example, without muddying the water further. The instructions with said form clearly states, "If the two figures are wildly different you may wish to jiggle the figures in line 2 until the two numbers are as close as you can get them". To reiterate a point made on numerous occasions, the OP only wanted a push in the right direction, to improve their water. The result, perfectly balanced or not, was to add acid (CRS) and gypsum, similar to the advice finally received from others.
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Sadfield
Landlord.
Sodium Max-58.70 Average-50.35 Low-37.80.
As the Average is close to the Max in the water report, it could be assumed that the low result was an anomaly bringing down the average. If we disregard that Low reading and further assume the average is much closer to the Maximum, say 56ppm of sodium, the Ion Balance Check moves within the acceptable 10% range outlined in the notes.
As the Average is close to the Max in the water report, it could be assumed that the low result was an anomaly bringing down the average. If we disregard that Low reading and further assume the average is much closer to the Maximum, say 56ppm of sodium, the Ion Balance Check moves within the acceptable 10% range outlined in the notes.
RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
@David Woods
You might not need all of that Lactic acid or any if Brewing a stout or porter.
You might not need all of that Lactic acid or any if Brewing a stout or porter.
peebee
Out of Control
. You hadn't even looked previously. "Close enough"? Believable; after all it's only 0.5. Of what? We're talking "mEq", "milliequivalents", what the flippin' heck are they. Martin Brungard seems to think its relevant: "should be within 0.5meq/L of each other". Is that "perfectly balanced"? But what would Martin Brungard know? Compared to the all-knowledgeable "Sadfield"?
Support what you're telling people with tangible evidence from believable third parties. And Graham Wheeler would be believable, so quoting him with independent references (so people can make up their own minds) will do for starters.
Don't hide behind what you've decided the OP requires; it's gone a bit beyond that. Your "reputation" is on the line.
Okay? Get to it ...
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Sadfield
Landlord.
What the OP requires is in the opening post.
What reputation?
Why have you suddenly started to worry about the ion balance? When the water report is supposedly worthless and unworkable anyway.
Why am I not blocked?
Get to what? I've already said this level detail isn't necessary. Not my field, that's why I directed the OP to Wheeler and Brungard in earlier posts. I don't even know why you think it is, I've spent most of the thread questioning your motives rather than disputing the chemistry.
What reputation?
Why have you suddenly started to worry about the ion balance? When the water report is supposedly worthless and unworkable anyway.
Why am I not blocked?
Get to what? I've already said this level detail isn't necessary. Not my field, that's why I directed the OP to Wheeler and Brungard in earlier posts. I don't even know why you think it is, I've spent most of the thread questioning your motives rather than disputing the chemistry.
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RoomWithABrew
Landlord.
If it was only H20.
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Absolutely agree...
I had to put time into understanding it and find my path.
What I learnt is there isn't a quick or a 'for now' answer. You need to find and buy into an appropriate method you can understand and explain. The problem then becomes a needle in an Internet-haystack of largely irrelevant rubbish, such that Peebee is trying to defuddle.
Oh. And once you have found your method it all starts again with which chemicals and from where. (insert banging head against brick wall emoji many times)
But the result is.. Smashing beer.
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peebee
Out of Control
Apologies everyone, I just got tired of the endless trite and deceit pouring out of a particular individual. I've put him back in my ignore list and I promise everyone here not to peek in it again.
I'll keep polishing up that "Defuddler" so no-one using it will ever be hassled with "water hardness", flippin' "CaCO3", or "mEq" (gawd forbid!) again. You don't need any of that stuff, yet by hardly knowing a thing you can know as much concerning water for brewing beer as the cleverest **** out there. I don't know why it's been made so hard (well, there's history I suppose?).
You think I'm just another clever ****? Comfortably living in my UK "class U" council tax band home. Look up that last phrase ... it may surprise you (and perhaps explain why some individuals get very annoyed at being outwitted by me
). There are things out there much harder to understand than "water chemistry", and eligibility for that council tax band is one of them!
I'll keep polishing up that "Defuddler" so no-one using it will ever be hassled with "water hardness", flippin' "CaCO3", or "mEq" (gawd forbid!) again. You don't need any of that stuff, yet by hardly knowing a thing you can know as much concerning water for brewing beer as the cleverest **** out there. I don't know why it's been made so hard (well, there's history I suppose?).
You think I'm just another clever ****? Comfortably living in my UK "class U" council tax band home. Look up that last phrase ... it may surprise you (and perhaps explain why some individuals get very annoyed at being outwitted by me
). There are things out there much harder to understand than "water chemistry", and eligibility for that council tax band is one of them!
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No apology needed. You have certainly helped me along the way and many others. Keep up the good work.
If the defuddler was an easy task, someone would have written it years ago.
If the defuddler was an easy task, someone would have written it years ago.
peebee
Out of Control
At the risk of waking up a poisoned thread:
The link for my "Defuddler" below (in my "signature") has been updated (the file appended "development" is the one described here). It is using the water described in this thread as the "default" entries. It's a rehash of the water company's analysis, but I'm not sure of its source, so do not recommend using it. But it is a chemically balanced analysis (which the water company's is not, "balance" out by over 30%). The updated "Defuddler" includes stuff like being able to identify that "30%"! But it is still dead-easy to use and includes more instruction now.
The Battle, Kent, water analysis is still shown relying on "non-hardness" based alkalinity, which is why I took an interest in this water - it's a rare combination in the UK. It therefore directly supports what I'm trying to do with the "Defuddler" which is eliminate our attachment to arcane "water hardness" and stop the utterly confusing and complicated attempts to make it work alongside simple more up-to-date methods. It's possibly ahead of its time, soon all full-blown water calculators will be doing this for themselves, and my data "pre-conditioning" attempt will be un-necessary.
Brewing water analysis and treatment is really, really, easy for the level we need it at. Don't let anyone attempt to make you think otherwise!
The link for my "Defuddler" below (in my "signature") has been updated (the file appended "development" is the one described here). It is using the water described in this thread as the "default" entries. It's a rehash of the water company's analysis, but I'm not sure of its source, so do not recommend using it. But it is a chemically balanced analysis (which the water company's is not, "balance" out by over 30%). The updated "Defuddler" includes stuff like being able to identify that "30%"! But it is still dead-easy to use and includes more instruction now.
The Battle, Kent, water analysis is still shown relying on "non-hardness" based alkalinity, which is why I took an interest in this water - it's a rare combination in the UK. It therefore directly supports what I'm trying to do with the "Defuddler" which is eliminate our attachment to arcane "water hardness" and stop the utterly confusing and complicated attempts to make it work alongside simple more up-to-date methods. It's possibly ahead of its time, soon all full-blown water calculators will be doing this for themselves, and my data "pre-conditioning" attempt will be un-necessary.
Brewing water analysis and treatment is really, really, easy for the level we need it at. Don't let anyone attempt to make you think otherwise!
peebee
Out of Control
Just in case you need this ... Follow the link, it takes you to my "Google" drive, it may look slightly different because you'll be a "guest":
The "rotated ellipsis" (three vertical dots) brings up the download option. If you only double-click the filename, it'll open (read-only) in Google Sheets (not best!). I doubt it works on mobile phones. Created in MS Excel. It is only a "data conditioner"; use once and it's done its job.
The "rotated ellipsis" (three vertical dots) brings up the download option. If you only double-click the filename, it'll open (read-only) in Google Sheets (not best!). I doubt it works on mobile phones. Created in MS Excel. It is only a "data conditioner"; use once and it's done its job.
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What signature?
Oops just remembered.. Tip the phone over.
Oops just remembered.. Tip the phone over.
Good tip, I never realised that
SnapGood tip, I never realised that
