Newbie

[Robinbrum]

Hi, I hope I can pick the brains of a few experienced brewers in here who can hopefully give me some guidance. I brewed my own lager back in the late 80s when I was an impoverished student /on-the-dole and the experience was enough to put me off for over 30 years. No matter how diligently I followed the rules home brewed lager never tasted anything like the "real thing" and always had a slight aroma of sulphur and malt vinegar (though slightly sweeter on the tongue).

I was hoping things had changed but my first two brews have been very disappointing and when I first opened the lid after primary fermentation it was like going back to the 1980s with that distinctive aroma filling my nostrils again!!! The taste is slightly better but both brews have been very flat, virtually no head and the taste is extremely bitter.

Only difference this time is I'm using a plastic keg instead of bottles simply to avoid the mess and hassle of cleaning bottles.

What I would like to address most is the cloudiness of the beer, the bitterness and the lack of carbonation. I will post in more detail later.

Cheers!
Rob

 

[Jahfish]

Hi, I hope I can pick the brains of a few experienced brewers in here who can hopefully give me some guidance. I brewed my own lager back in the late 80s when I was an impoverished student /on-the-dole and the experience was enough to put me off for over 30 years. No matter how diligently I followed the rules home brewed lager never tasted anything like the "real thing" and always had a slight aroma of sulphur and malt vinegar (though slightly sweeter on the tongue).

I was hoping things had changed but my first two brews have been very disappointing and when I first opened the lid after primary fermentation it was like going back to the 1980s with that distinctive aroma filling my nostrils again!!! The taste is slightly better but both brews have been very flat, virtually no head and the taste is extremely bitter.

Only difference this time is I'm using a plastic keg instead of bottles simply to avoid the mess and hassle of cleaning bottles.

What I would like to address most is the cloudiness of the beer, the bitterness and the lack of carbonation. I will post in more detail later.

Cheers!
Rob

Lager is a bit more tricky to brew. Others here will be able to add lots of details

 

[The Baron]

Welcome to the forum

 

[Bitter_Dave]

Hi Robin welcome to the forum.

A couple of thoughts. If you are using a plastic pressure barrel I'm afraid you are not going to get lager levels of carbonation. You need to use bottles for this as they hold greater pressure. Plastic pressure barrels will give carbonation equivalent to pub real ale or thereabouts.

Second, if you use a one can kit and a kilo of sugar this will result in beer that is thinner tasting, which may taste more bitter because it is not balanced by as much by malt. It is I would suggest better to use more malt extract if you can, but that obviously costs a bit more.

Please note I have never made lager or used a kilo of sugar in a brew, so this is a bit of speculation!

 

[Robinbrum]

Hi Robin welcome to the forum.

A couple of thoughts. If you are using a plastic pressure barrel I'm afraid you are not going to get lager levels of carbonation. You need to use bottles for this as they hold greater pressure. Plastic pressure barrels will give carbonation equivalent to pub real ale or thereabouts.

Second, if you use a one can kit and a kilo of sugar this will result in beer that is thinner tasting, which may taste more bitter because it is not balanced by as much by malt. It is I would suggest better to use more malt extract if you can, but that obviously costs a bit more.

Please note I have never made lager or used a kilo of sugar in a brew, so this is a bit of speculation!

Sorry, should have made it clear, this is a pale ale not a lager, but I still expected it to have a bit more fizz... it is completely flat, barely a few bubbles when poured from a height of a few inches. That can't be right can it???

 

[Robinbrum]

Hi Robin welcome to the forum.

A couple of thoughts. If you are using a plastic pressure barrel I'm afraid you are not going to get lager levels of carbonation. You need to use bottles for this as they hold greater pressure. Plastic pressure barrels will give carbonation equivalent to pub real ale or thereabouts.

Second, if you use a one can kit and a kilo of sugar this will result in beer that is thinner tasting, which may taste more bitter because it is not balanced by as much by malt. It is I would suggest better to use more malt extract if you can, but that obviously costs a bit more.

Please note I have never made lager or used a kilo of sugar in a brew, so this is a bit of speculation!

This is the kit I'm using, it had the malt extract included and mine has been around for about 8 weeks now

 

[Rwilts]

Welcome

 

[MashBag]

I guess you are not gassing it, so the yeast have to do the work.
After eight weeks that hasn't happened.

It will need a bit more sugar for the yeast to produce the gas. You need the keg to be gas tight and somewhere warm for the yeast to burst into life.

How long has it been in the barrel?

 

[Robinbrum]

I guess you are not gassing it, so the yeast have to do the work.
After eight weeks that hasn't happened.

It will need a bit more sugar for the yeast to produce the gas. You need the keg to be gas tight and somewhere warm for the yeast to burst into life.

How long has it been in the barrel?

I left it four weeks in the barrel then transfered it to the keg where it's been sitting for another 4 weeks. I discarded a a fair amount due to there being a great deal of sediment which I didn't want to transfer to the barrel. Prior to that it had been sitting in a cupboard at about room temperature. I had used a heating belt on the previous brew because it was winter. I didn't use it this time as someone told me too high a temperature might have killed off the yeast on the first brew.

There is a large gap between the liquid and the top of the keg - could this be why it's so flat? I have those little c02 cartridges but that made no difference last time. As a matter of fact the man in the home brew shop advised me not to fit one when the keg is nearly full as there is a risk of explosion (thankfully this didn't happen!)

I don't know how to make the keg gas tight (other than tightening it). It has no fancy bells and whistles just a dispensing tap and a flat lid with no holes drilled in.

 

[Robinbrum]

I left it four weeks in the barrel then transfered it to the keg where it's been sitting for another 4 weeks. I discarded a a fair amount due to there being a great deal of sediment which I didn't want to transfer to the barrel. Prior to that it had been sitting in a cupboard at about room temperature. I had used a heating belt on the previous brew because it was winter. I didn't use it this time as someone told me too high a temperature might have killed off the yeast on the first brew.

There is a large gap between the liquid and the top of the keg - could this be why it's so flat? I have those little c02 cartridges but that made no difference last time. As a matter of fact the man in the home brew shop advised me not to fit one when the keg is nearly full as there is a risk of explosion (thankfully this didn't happen!)

I don't know how to make the keg gas tight (other than tightening it). It has no fancy bells and whistles just a dispensing tap and a flat lid with no holes drilled in.

"I left it four weeks in the barrel then transfered it to the keg"
*Just to clarify by barrel I mean basic fermenting bucket made of plastic. Now it's in a plastic barrel with a dispensing tap... Hope this makes sense!!!

 

[damienair]

They are good premium kits. I’m sorry it didn’t turn out great for you. I’m brewing for 4 years now and I brew kits and full extract kits. I just have a basic set up. I make the kits up as per instructions and I leave them in my fermentation bucket for 2 weeks. I then transfer the beer to to another bucket so as the bottle the beer. I add 120g of brewing sugar to 400ml of hot water to dissolve and once cooled I add to the beer and give it a gentle mix. I then bottle it into glass 500ml bottles and leave them in a warm place to go through secondary fermentation and carbonation for two weeks. I then move the bottles down to my garage for at least two weeks before I drink them. I’ve done one can kits with extra dry malt extract or liquid malt extract, premium kits and full extract kits. I’ve genuinely had great results and the beers are as nice sometimes as commercial beers. I love IPA’s, Pale Ales and Wheat Beers. Maybe it’s my water, I just use tap water from my home. I like using bottles as sometimes I may not drink for a few weeks so I can store the beers in my garage and not worry about them.

 

[Mash Monster]

I have just reread the OP and there doesn’t appear to be any mention of adding priming sugar for secondary fermentation to take place .
Is this happening ? If so how much sugar are you adding ?

 

[jeremy Hall]

They are good premium kits. I’m sorry it didn’t turn out great for you. I’m brewing for 4 years now and I brew kits and full extract kits. I just have a basic set up. I make the kits up as per instructions and I leave them in my fermentation bucket for 2 weeks. I then transfer the beer to to another bucket so as the bottle the beer. I add 120g of brewing sugar to 400ml of hot water to dissolve and once cooled I add to the beer and give it a gentle mix. I then bottle it into glass 500ml bottles and leave them in a warm place to go through secondary fermentation and carbonation for two weeks. I then move the bottles down to my garage for at least two weeks before I drink them. I’ve done one can kits with extra dry malt extract or liquid malt extract, premium kits and full extract kits. I’ve genuinely had great results and the beers are as nice sometimes as commercial beers. I love IPA’s, Pale Ales and Wheat Beers. Maybe it’s my water, I just use tap water from my home. I like using bottles as sometimes I may not drink for a few weeks so I can store the beers in my garage and not worry about them.

I do similar to you, but I sugar the bottles individually. I have had a few flat bottles. Not a lot, maybe one in five. I'm not sure why, but it could be the new caps I'm using. I doubt I have missed sugar in the bottles for this number to fail. Could be the weather. Although the ones that do head, head well. I've tried to cap a bit harder with my latest to try and fix this issue.

 

[Twostage]

I have just reread the OP and there doesn’t appear to be any mention of adding priming sugar for secondary fermentation to take place .
Is this happening ? If so how much sugar are you adding ?

I was wondering about that. @Robinbrum did the bottom of the barrel push out and become rounded ? Looks scary but its a sign that the barrel is under pressure.

 

[Robinbrum]

I have just reread the OP and there doesn’t appear to be any mention of adding priming sugar for secondary fermentation to take place .
Is this happening ? If so how much sugar are you adding ?

I added the malt extract that came with the kit, if memory serves me right. I think during primary fermentation I just added the brewers sugar which also was included in the kit.

 

[MashBag]

Tbh kegging is a separate skillset and can be a right pain in the ass. Plastic self primed / co2 cartridge is also the tougher end of the game. But here's the kicker that final step is currently ruining your enjoyment of a good pint.

Get the process and the taste right first. Great beer awaits you.

If you do too much too soon, you won't be able to see which bits going sideways.


Brewing needs these steps..
Good recipe & ingredients
Good mash, process & controls
Good fermentation, process & controls
Good packaging & storage

Those steps need...
a chef,
a buyer,
an engineer,
a brewer,
a chemist,
a secretary,
a Cellar man
and a Landlord.

We all bring some of them to the party, and learn the rest.

Why not get some bottles and a quality kit, and make yourself grin, with a smashing glass of something you made.

It will be a lot easier, to revisit kegging with a glass in your hand

 

[Beer-Kosh]

That's where you went wrong, the brewers sugar should have been added to the pressure barrel to start secondary fermentation and carbonation. You can try adding a similar amount of table sugar and leave for a couple of weeks to see if it starts.

 

[MashBag]

Hmm. That's not how I read the instructions?

 

[MashBag]

Here you go.

Although point 14 refers to "primary" sugar, when it really means "priming".

So the question is.. @Robinbrum did you add any sugar to the keg, when you siphoned in the beer and how much?

 

[old dog new tricks]

Not a beer man so can't say with confidence but agree to get carbonation you need sugar or other fermentation and the yest must still be viable, in wine making for example if you leave it too long you have add a small amount of yeast to restart for carbonation.

The only beer or lager i guess a Corona clone was made in plastic FV but following stepped temperatures as advised by others on here, then brewing sugar added at bottling I prefer to rack to another bucket add the sugar to mix well then bottle.

Sure others wiser than me will confirm