matt76's Brewdays

[DocAnna]

Hi - just wondering how you got on with the Aromazyme enzyme? You'd said it didn't seem to do any harm with the hoppy amber ale, I'm wondering if it has had any effect as the bottle/beer ages and preservation of aroma compounds? Thanks.
Anna

 

[matt76]

Hi - just wondering how you got on with the Aromazyme enzyme? You'd said it didn't seem to do any harm with the hoppy amber ale, I'm wondering if it has had any effect as the bottle/beer ages and preservation of aroma compounds? Thanks.
Anna

Hi @DocAnna , good question, well presented... unfortunately I don't know the answer as (a) it's still a bit early to say, and (b) I never did a control experiment.

I tried Hoppy Amber Ale v3 1 week after bottling and the hops were super fresh (although it wasn't quite fully carbonated) and I thought I'd nailed it.

I tried it again 2 weeks after bottling and was disappointed to note already that the hops had lost some of that freshness - hence my recent questions/comments to you about preventing oxidation (of the delicate volatile hop compounds) at bottling.

To be clear, it certainly hasn't suddenly turned bad - it's very nice, just still doesn't quite have the hop punch I'm after.

Similar story this weekend just gone, about 3 weeks after bottling. @pilgrimhudd tried it and he liked it.

The only other time I've used this enzyme is in my Get Even IPA v2 which is still in the FV and almost ready for bottling - planning a few experiments to try to limit oxygen ingress.

It certainly doesn't seem to be hurting the beer but I can't yet say with conviction it makes a difference to the hoppiness.

I plan to keep trying it. Currently I'm adding the Malt Miller recommended dose of a mere 0.25g in 10L. I might double this to the Lallemand recommended dose but I'm not sure if that just means it will just work faster to reach the same point.

I've only tried it so far with BRY-97 which I believe is already quite good with regard to biotransformation - perhaps the effect would be more pronounced with a less biotransformative yeast.

One clear effect I've noticed with BRY-97 is it has increased the apparent attenuation from about 75% to 80% in the 2 batches where I've used it (hence why Hoppy Amber v3 ended up a bit stronger then I wanted, but I learned the lesson and allowed for it in Get Even IPA v2 by dialling back the grist a little).

 

[matt76]

Bottling: AG#73 "Get Even" IPA v2

Yield = 21 x 500ml bottles
Batch primed with 35g table sugar for a modest 1.66vols CO2

Colour = Pale, hazy, like weak orange squash, but seems bright.
Aroma = Grapefruit
Taste = Sharp grapefruit bitterness - nice, but not the pine/resin I was aiming for or expecting from these hops! I could be persuaded there's a bit of pine/resin in there but not totally sure.

OG = 1.038
FG = 1.005
Apparent Attenuation = 86%
ABV = 4.3%
SRM = 3.9 (Pale)
IBU = 60 (Rager)

To reduce O2 exposure I didn't cold crash or open the FV to add any finings prior to bottling. Instead I added 2.5ml "BrauSol" finings from The Malt Miller to the bottling bucket after pouring in priming solution but before starting syphon (think it's basically silicon dioxide, similar to Harris Starbrite).

Filled all bottles before capping. Filled each one higher than normal to approx. 10mm from top to reduce air gap (and hence O2) by holding bottling wand against inside of neck.

Experimented with several different ideas to try to mitigate hop fade due to oxygen exposure - I treated each bottle individually then capped immediately after:
13 bottles - Purge headspace / Cap on Foam. Used "Private Preserve" spray from Amazon. The spray is rather too powerful so ended up with a mixture of purging, foaming and beer sprayed everywhere!
4 bottles - Cap as normal, no special treatment. Control experiment.
2 bottles - Added a small scoop (approx 0.1g) vitamin C powder.
2 bottles - Added a small scoop (approx 0.1g) bicarbonate of soda, but it didn't fizz up - best guess the beer is not acidic enough for a vigorous reaction.

Interesting to note that just 4-5 hours after bottling a lot of sediment had already started to settle in the bottles so will be interesting to see if or how they clear.

Also interesting to note that it attenuated even more than expected due to the "Aromazyme" enzyme added at yeast pitch: without I would expect about 75% from BRY-97; with it I assumed (based on last time) 80%; but it actually ended up at 86% - glad in hindsight I reduced the grain bill a bit to allow for this.

I'll give it a week or two to carbonate before getting stuck in - will be interesting to see what difference (if any!) my bottling experiments make as time goes on

 

[matt76]

AG#73 "Get Even" IPA v2

This is already looking about a million times clearer than immediately after bottling. But note the massive layer of sediment at the bottom!

I'm assuming this is mainly due to the finings I added at bottling. It was in the FV for long enough at 20degC that if it was going to settle naturally then it would have done so already.

Without doubt a good cold crash and fining in the FV would have been better for clarity, but I decided against this to absolutely minimise as much as possible oxygen suck-back and/or ingress to preserve hop flavour and aroma.

PS - but then I just went ahead and syphoned to an open bottling bucket as normal

 

[foxbat]

It is a nice colour and hasn't browned, or greened or purpled or any of those things reported to happen to hoppy bottled beers You do seem to be collecting a fair bit of trub into the bottles, maybe that yeast strain just doesn't drop out in a hurry. I've seen that with a few (e.g. WY1318 the favourite of the NEIPA folks) and I tend to avoid them unless I'm doing a Belgian.

 

[matt76]

It is a nice colour and hasn't browned, or greened or purpled or any of those things reported to happen to hoppy bottled beers

Well I've only just bottled it so unless I really abused it at bottling I wouldn't expect it to turn quite that quickly! But I have a few clear bottles covering the different treatments which will be handy to monitor any changes.

But it's actually not that hoppy, i.e. it's intended to be more in the style of a WC AIPA with pronounced bitterness and categorically not supposed to be a NEIPA. The dry hop is pretty modest, only 30g in 10L although by adding it at yeast pitch it wouldn't be a surprise to see some haze. That said, my recent Hoppy Amber Ale v3 was also dry hopped 30g in 10L at pitching and that is pretty much clear (although I cold crashed and fined in the FV with gelatin).

You do seem to be collecting a fair bit of trub into the bottles, maybe that yeast strain just doesn't drop out in a hurry

Yeah it's a bit weird. BRY-97 is a pretty decent flocculator so I'm not really sure. I also don't know for sure if it's yeast or hop gunk that's settled out. And again I didn't see this behaviour in any of the other beers (many of them now) that I've fermented with BRY-97.

I've seen that with a few (e.g. WY1318 the favourite of the NEIPA folks) and I tend to avoid them unless I'm doing a Belgian.

You've been fermenting Belgian beers with WY1318??? I know 1318 is popular with the NEIPA crowd but when I've used it in other styles I've found it to be a pretty good flocculator and I'd assume from the clarity of your beers you've found similar.

Oh and this'll tickle you - having always been staunchly against it I've actually been taking more of an interest in kegging as a result of this. I see TMM sells 9L & 12L corny kegs which would actually suit my needs quite nicely (I had assumed everything was geared exclusively towards 20L/5USGal brewing which doesn't interest me).

But kegging would be a pretty dramatic step to take for only ~35% (50% tops) of the beer I make. There's an important distinction to make - I don't have a problem with my beer oxidising - my lagers, stouts and porters for example are just fine.

But I possibly may (or may not!) have a problem with the hop flavour and aroma of my hoppy beers suffering from hop fade which may (or may not!) be triggered by O2 ingress at various stages.

 

[foxbat]

Well I've only just bottled it so unless I really abused it at bottling I wouldn't expect it to turn quite that quickly! But I have a few clear bottles covering the different treatments which will be handy to monitor any changes.

But it's actually not that hoppy, i.e. it's intended to be more in the style of a WC AIPA with pronounced bitterness and categorically not supposed to be a NEIPA. The dry hop is pretty modest, only 30g in 10L although by adding it at yeast pitch it wouldn't be a surprise to see some haze. That said, my recent Hoppy Amber Ale v3 was also dry hopped 30g in 10L at pitching and that is pretty much clear (although I cold crashed and fined in the FV with gelatin).


Yeah it's a bit weird. BRY-97 is a pretty decent flocculator so I'm not really sure. I also don't know for sure if it's yeast or hop gunk that's settled out. And again I didn't see this behaviour in any of the other beers (many of them now) that I've fermented with BRY-97.

On a slight tangent but still on the subject of NEIPA I was reading some of the background info on the difference between torrefied and malted wheats on Crisp's website and I was lead to their NEIPA recipe. The comment about selecting their 'clear-choice' malt to reduce oxidative darkening was something I hadn't seen before.

You've been fermenting Belgian beers with WY1318??? I know 1318 is popular with the NEIPA crowd but when I've used it in other styles I've found it to be a pretty good flocculator and I'd assume from the clarity of your beers you've found similar.

1388 for the last Belgian. The haze lasted a few weeks after kegging but did drop out and sadly with it some of the character though it still had plenty of Belgian flavour. At 8.1% the keg did hang around for a couple of months. I used 1318 once back in 2019 in an AIPA to see what all the fuss was about and wasn't particularly impressed. Fermentation went fine but the beer had little contribution from the yeast and took a good month to clear in the keg by which time I'd almost finished it! I went back to the Vermont strain...

Oh and this'll tickle you - having always been staunchly against it I've actually been taking more of an interest in kegging as a result of this. I see TMM sells 9L & 12L corny kegs which would actually suit my needs quite nicely (I had assumed everything was geared exclusively towards 20L/5USGal brewing which doesn't interest me).

But kegging would be a pretty dramatic step to take for only ~35% (50% tops) of the beer I make. There's an important distinction to make - I don't have a problem with my beer oxidising - my lagers, stouts and porters for example are just fine.

But I possibly may (or may not!) have a problem with the hop flavour and aroma of my hoppy beers suffering from hop fade which may (or may not!) be triggered by O2 ingress at various stages.

Go for it! The more you delay the more you'll kick yourself for delaying when you do it. Nobody ever regrets going to kegs!

 

[matt76]

On a slight tangent but still on the subject of NEIPA I was reading some of the background info on the difference between torrefied and malted wheats on Crisp's website and I was lead to their NEIPA recipe. The comment about selecting their 'clear-choice' malt to reduce oxidative darkening was something I hadn't seen before.

IIRC there's something in Scott Janish's book about malted rather than unmalted adjuncts being better from the point of view of preventing/reducing oxidation of hop compounds.

 

[matt76]

AG#73 "Get Even" IPA v2

I can't quite tell compared to the previous pic, but I think it's looking slightly clearer

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I can't quite tell compared to the previous pic, but I think it's looking slightly clearer View attachment 49066

Just stored at room temp?

 

[pilgrimhudd]

This is my ipa from last night, really murky!

 

[matt76]

Just stored at room temp?

Yep. I added BrauSol finings from TMM at bottling which may have made all the difference.

(I believe it's nothing more than silica/silicon dioxide, same as in Harris Starbrite or one half of Kwik-Klear/Clear-It finings so nothing magic)

 

[matt76]

Get some kegs Matt, you know you want to.

I really don't - it makes no sense for my puny 10L batches and I don't actually drink that much beer to warrant keeping a keg (or for that matter somewhere to keep the keg cool)

I bottle all my beers and have no interest in kegging

I have no interest in kegging

 

[foxbat]

Get in!

 

[DocAnna]

It does seem that resistance to kegging is futile: I similarly didn't see myself going down the kegging route and well it ended up pretty much the same as you. One of the problems with being exposed to a forum such as this is that we see what is possible, that it's not out of reach, not that scary...

(Ok well the fear of getting to the level of complexity of @Hazelwood Brewery is perhaps a bit scary - evidence Hazelwood Brewday )

Anna

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

It does seem that resistance to kegging is futile: I similarly didn't see myself going down the kegging route and well it ended up pretty much the same as you. One of the problems with being exposed to a forum such as this is that we see what is possible, that it's not out of reach, not that scary...

(Ok well the fear of getting to the level of complexity of @Hazelwood Brewery is perhaps a bit scary - evidence Hazelwood Brewday )

Anna

You have to remember I’m a habitual project junkie. Most of what I’m doing can be achieved with a kegerator or two BUT if you want to do something along similar lines I have loads of experience that can help you fast-track through my own learning.

…you know you want to Anna

 

[cushyno]

You have to remember I’m a habitual project junkie. Most of what I’m doing can be achieved with a kegerator or two BUT if you want to do something along similar lines I have loads of experience that can help you fast-track through my own learning.

…you know you want to Anna

Do I detect a TV series in the making? "Hazelwood's brew shed makeovers".

Blurb: DIY brewery guru @Hazelwood Brewery tours the UK with his van full of "shiny kit" assisting wannabe brewers to up their game. Quoted as saying "Obviously, beer quality is important. Firstly, brewers like me need to think big on the styling and project a professional outward impression to friends and family first and foremost. Brewing technique gradually improves once you've bought a load of kegs and taps and need to keep them filled." Mr Hazelwood is ably assisted on his journey by @The-Engineer-That-Brews and @Buffers brewery who sometimes manage to turn a five minute job into triple-episode cliffhanger! A great series to watch. Sometimes descends from the sublime to the ridiculous. Beware, contains foul language in the episode on pressure barrels when they stumble across @terrym at a barn sale.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Do I detect a TV series in the making? "Hazelwood's brew shed makeovers".

Blurb: DIY brewery guru @Hazelwood Brewery tours the UK with his van full of "shiny kit" assisting wannabe brewers to up their game. Quoted as saying "Obviously, beer quality is important. Firstly, brewers like me need to think big on the styling and project a professional outward impression to friends and family first and foremost. Brewing technique gradually improves once you've bought a load of kegs and taps and need to keep them filled." Mr Hazelwood is ably assisted on his journey by @The-Engineer-That-Brews and @Buffers brewery who sometimes manage to turn a five minute job into triple-episode cliffhanger! A great series to watch. Sometimes descends from the sublime to the ridiculous. Beware, contains foul language in the episode on pressure barrels when they stumble across @terrym at a barn sale.

Love it!! Also, yes please.

I might have to engage you as my press officer

 

[matt76]

It does seem that resistance to kegging is futile: I similarly didn't see myself going down the kegging route and well it ended up pretty much the same as you. One of the problems with being exposed to a forum such as this is that we see what is possible, that it's not out of reach, not that scary...

(Ok well the fear of getting to the level of complexity of @Hazelwood Brewery is perhaps a bit scary - evidence Hazelwood Brewday )

Anna

I think you're right @DocAnna , that's certainly a large part of it. I think the other thing that swung it for me is the realisation that you can actually get corny kegs in smaller sizes that suit what I do.

The initial plan is see how I get on with this (it's a 12L keg) and go from there.

The new fridge is wider then my brew fridge and it'll certainly take another keg the same size but I'll need to do some very careful measuring to see if it'll take a third.

Long term, all being well, the plan is to convert it to a 2 or 3 keg kegerator.

One step at a time...

 

[matt76]

Brewery Update

No brewing to speak of at the moment. For a while I've been brewing faster than I've been drinking so I'm trying to run my stocks down a bit.

A quick count says I've got 12 different beers on the go and probably 80 or so bottles, so I think I can pare that down a little (nice problem to have, mind you).

In the meantime I've been having a blooming good sort out in the garage to make some space for my new fridge/kegerator-apparent.

Fermentation fridge on the left, would-be-kegerator on the right. I even got around to fixing the Inkbird to the wall!

There's still beer to be drunk Gas cylinder fixed to the wall

I've been having some fun this week playing with water, just trying to figure out exactly, when it comes to the crunch, how am I going to do a closed transfer - including, but not limited to, getting a bit trigger happy with the gas and turning one of my fermenting buckets into a sphere!

I'm quite certain I'll still hit some snags when I come to do it for real, but it's been useful to iron out some of the major kinks and figure any extra little bits and pieces I need to order to make the job a bit easier.

In the meantime the kids are thrilled with the realisation that fizzy water + orange squash = Fanta

Fridge: "Please put more kegs in me!"
Keg: "I'm lonely in here!"