Hop mashing

[Sadfield]

2016 study by Kunze and Co came to the same conclusion.

Citation required. He was dead. He also retired in 1991.

https://brauwelt.com/en/news/people...stry-mourns-the-loss-of-wolfgang-kunze-622541

 

[foxy]

Citation required. He was dead. He also retired in 1991.

https://brauwelt.com/en/news/people...stry-mourns-the-loss-of-wolfgang-kunze-622541

Check on research gate, I don't know if it was Anton Kunze which it could well be.

 

[Sadfield]

Check on research gate, I don't know if it was Anton Kunze which it could well be.

Or, never happened. Usual BS.

 

[foxy]

Or, never happened. Usual BS.

 

[foxy]

Wietstock, P. C., Kunz, T. and Methner, F.-J.Influence of Hopping Technology onOxidative Stability and Staling-RelatedCarbonyls in Pale Lager Beer

 

[An Ankoù]

Its the amount of hops that need to be used where the wastage lies. It isn't just one dose, it's several. The reasons were for chelating the metal ions in the wort. Nothing to do with flavour.

Agreed.
But there seem to be two quite separate goals and the Omega claims (at least in the article) have nothing to do with binding metal ions. It's Omega' s goal that interests me. Janish has interesting things to stay about metal ions particularly manganese in unmalted oats, but that's a different issue.

 

[jambop]

Or, never happened. Usual BS.

Would you like a chip? ... Nah you have a bag of them already!

 

[foxy]

Agreed.
But there seem to be two quite separate goals and the Omega claims (at least in the article) have nothing to do with binding metal ions. It's Omega' s goal that interests me. Janish has interesting things to stay about metal ions particularly manganese in unmalted oats, but that's a different issue.

I agree, I was clarifying what is was used for as someone had stated it was used in bygone days, Has any research been done on any flavour I have never seen any and I think it would have been mentioned in the paper the only mention was it made the beer more bitter. This was having passed through paper filters a couple of times.

 

[Sadfield]

Lüers [67] mentioned in 1950 that the addition of
hops to the mash is a ‘substantial waste’. This seems to be valid
as related to the hop bitter acid utilization; yet, when taking the
results from this study into consideration, this statement has to
be qualified again as the positive effects on beer flavor stability
were not known.

Luers was only looking at bitterness.
Kunz et al clearly states there's a positive influence on flavour stability that questions Luers assertions. Perhaps look at more modern research regarding the chelation of iron.

 

[An Ankoù]

I agree, I was clarifying what is was used for as someone had stated it was used in bygone days, Has any research been done on any flavour I have never seen any and I think it would have been mentioned in the paper the only mention was it made the beer more bitter. This was having passed through paper filters a couple of times.

It seems the only research is that, which I'm doing at the moment
Hardly scientific, though. No side by side, no control of variables. But the flavour is quite different to previous batches.
Whether that's down to the mash hopping or using k-97 yeast or both, I have no idea.
It seems not all hops benefit from this. Cascade is one that (allegedly) does. That's the hop I've been using.

 

[Sadfield]

Would you like a chip? ... Nah you have a bag of them already!

We've established that neither the late Wolfgang Kunze or Anton Kunze or Thomas Kunz, made the claim. So, I'll stick with BS.

 

[foxy]

We've established that neither the late Wolfgang Kunze or Anton Kunze or Thomas Kunz, made the claim. So, I'll stick with BS.

Free world, do what you like. Very easy to download the file from Research Gate. Well it is for most people.

 

[Sadfield]

Free world, do what you like. Very easy to download the file from Research Gate. Well it is for most people.

Post #29. There's this quote directly from it. So, yes it is easy.

Lüers [67] mentioned in 1950 that the addition of
hops to the mash is a ‘substantial waste’. This seems to be valid
as related to the hop bitter acid utilization; yet, when taking the
results from this study into consideration, this statement has to
be qualified again as the positive effects on beer flavor stability
were not known.

 

[Sadfield]

Research is ongoing, such as this from 2023.

"The findings suggest that natural chelators have the potential to enhance beer flavour stability by diminishing radical formation during brewing and lowering the amount of transition metals and aldehydes in the final product."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECCIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw27Qsm0r_a6uEIMZ_mmjLRo

Echoes my experience.

 

[foxy]

Post #29. There's this quote directly from it. So, yes it is easy.

Lüers [67] mentioned in 1950 that the addition of
hops to the mash is a ‘substantial waste’. This seems to be valid
as related to the hop bitter acid utilization; yet, when taking the
results from this study into consideration, this statement has to
be qualified again as the positive effects on beer flavor stability
were not known.

Exactly, but don't be put off by what they did find. Just carry on doing it. I won't bother.

 

[Sadfield]

Exactly, but don't be put off by what they did find.

They didn't find anything to be put off by, you made your own conclusion up.

Foxy, says no.

Lets carry on with open minds. What's to lose other than a few quids worth of hops.

 

[foxy]

Research is ongoing, such as this from 2023.

"The findings suggest that natural chelators have the potential to enhance beer flavour stability by diminishing radical formation during brewing and lowering the amount of transition metals and aldehydes in the final product."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECCIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw27Qsm0r_a6uEIMZ_mmjLRo

Echoes my experience.

With the same outcome, further research is needed. But one home brewer reckons it's great and the sheep follow.
All the Pro Brewers are falling over themselves to get into 'Mash Hopping'
https://discussions.probrewer.com/f...ailable-for-sponsorship/7147-hops-in-the-mash

They didn't find anything to be put off by, you made your own conclusion up.

Foxy, says no.

Lets carry on with open minds. What's to lose other than a few quids worth of hops.

So what was the final outcome? Please let us know

 

[Sadfield]

Probrewer thread from 2009.

So what was the final outcome? Please let us know

I don't know. Yet. Follow the research, do your own experiment. Don't listen to Antipodean idiots that invent citations, to discourage you.

 

[foxy]

Probrewer thread from 2009.

Have a look at the 20022 post.

 

[jambop]

With the same outcome, further research is needed. But one home brewer reckons it's great and the sheep follow.
All the Pro Brewers are falling over themselves to get into 'Mash Hopping'
https://discussions.probrewer.com/f...ailable-for-sponsorship/7147-hops-in-the-mash

So what was the final outcome? Please let us know

Home brewing is not a hobby... it simply has to be a science! Home brewing the new HiFi spend a shed load on trying to achieve something that most people cannot detect.