Grain Mill recommendations and grain crush for Brewzilla Gen4

[Elliott 22]

To keep as even a temperature between the water flowing from the smaller than most other AIO reservoir (or dead space as called by some) and through the mash you need as much flow as possible hence full flow.
The smaller reservoir heats up quicker than other AIO's as there is less to heat up and that is why you get larger than normal heat differentials between the mash and the reservoir.
Full flow will help to even this out and also that is why you need a grainbed with good flow through so that it can be done at full throttle also the heating element needs to be turned down so the heating of a smaller reservoir does not massively overshoot during mash.

I also use the rapt Bluetooth thermometer and set that as the main temperature gauge and have used the settings suggested by kee from kegland to help even the temperature between top probe and bottom

 

[The Baron]

I use the Rapt too and that shows you the variation you can get between the mash temp and the bottom sensor in the AIO. Without this Rapt you need to measure the mash with a independent thermometer as it is not giving a true mash temp just the temp of the wort at the bottom of the AIO which has 2 heating elements below it so not a true measurement of the mash.
Brewzilla should really be selling the unit with the Rapt as it is important for accurate mash temperatures

 

[Elliott 22]

I use the Rapt too and that shows you the variation you can get between the mash temp and the bottom sensor in the AIO. Without this Rapt you need to measure the mash with a independent thermometer as it is not giving a true mash temp just the temp of the wort at the bottom of the AIO which has 2 heating elements below it so not a true measurement of the mash.
Brewzilla should really be selling the unit with the Rapt as it is important for accurate mash temperatures

Completely agree, I went with one of the bundles and have forgotten once recently to use it and mash efficiency was down to 72% but my brew house efficiency was at 1889719.43%

But normally always use the rapt thermometer. I have struggled at full flow as feel it draws the wort through the mash bed and compacting the grain. Since theottling back on the recirc arm haven’t had any problems.

My last brew had 94.6% mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency was at 82.7% which I am more than happy about

Also the last brew I crushed my own grain for the first time with the Grainfather grain mill, top piece of kit

 

[The Baron]

My next move is to crush my own just 2 sacks to go through first
If you can get full flow you will get a better mash temp stability though but if it works for you as is can't knock it.
Ps what MM did you crush to and did you spritz it with water first?

 

[Elliott 22]

My next move is to crush my own just 2 sacks to go through first
If you can get full flow you will get a better mash temp stability though but if it works for you as is can't knock it.
Ps what MM did you crush to and did you spritz it with water first?

I may retry full flow again as am no means an expert but did have problems my first 2 brews with that setup.

I went with the recommendation on the Grainfather grain mill instructions depending on the grain they suggest different settings and i just went with that think it was 5 which is 1.3mm Also I did not spritz the grain as it suggests not too as can cause clogging of the mill itself.

 

[The Baron]

I was going to use 1.4mm from what advice I have gleaned so there or there abouts.
I saw Boris from MM has said it clogs it but you do not wet the grain but spritz it with water just to make it swell a little first it is said to cut down on the flour which is what causes the flow through issue with the Gen4

 

[borischarlton]

Conditioning isn't the same as wet grain. It's still dry... It's not even damp. You add ~100g of water to 5kg of grain. It makes the husk "slightly leathery" rather than wet

Yes, I understand about conditioning malt But, the Grainfather instructions state about dry malt only. Now, this is probably a "don't throw the hairdryer in the bath" situation but....

 

[Elliott 22]

Yes, I understand about conditioning malt But, the Grainfather instructions state about dry malt only. Now, this is probably a "don't throw the hairdryer in the bath" situation but....

Yeah your probably right Boris, I have watched a lot of videos about conditioning malt but definitely didn’t want to risk it with quite a pricey new grain mill

 

[The Baron]

No I wouldn't either Elliott but with my old secondhand one the world is my oyster

 

[Agentgonzo]

No I wouldn't either Elliott but with my old secondhand one the world is my oyster

Don't put your oysters anywhere near your grain mill <wince>

 

[RoomWithABrew]

If you are getting your own mil, look at "grain conditioning" (basically, wet it a little). You get a much better flow through the mash (and less dust when milling) and it's easy to do.

As suggested in post 8 this thread!

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Just be careful if you are using the Grainfather malt mill as it is not rated for wet malt.

Define wet?
The grain is hardly damp when conditioned with 1 to 2% by weight of water.
If that mill is so sensitive they should say how dry the grains by moisture percentage to use.
I can't see why anyone would mill wet grains.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I can't see why anyone would mill wet grains.

Wet milling is literally when the grain is mixed with water to a kind of slurry. I think some of the German breweries do it. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think it was something like keeping the grain husk more intact (like grain conditioning but better) and essentially squeezing the endosperm out of the husk rather than cracking open the dry grain.

I imagine that's what grainfather are referring to when they say "not wet grain" rather than conditioned grain, which imo is still dry

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Wet milling is literally when the grain is mixed with water to a kind of slurry. I think some of the German breweries do it. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think it was something like keeping the grain husk more intact (like grain conditioning but better) and essentially squeezing the endosperm out of the husk rather than cracking open the dry grain.

I imagine that's what grainfather are referring to when they say "not wet grain" rather than conditioned grain, which imo is still dry

Interesting info. Thanks.

Agree conditioning is in no way wet and makes a big difference in my experience to efficiency.

 

[foxy]

Completely agree, I went with one of the bundles and have forgotten once recently to use it and mash efficiency was down to 72% but my brew house efficiency was at 1889719.43%

But normally always use the rapt thermometer. I have struggled at full flow as feel it draws the wort through the mash bed and compacting the grain. Since theottling back on the recirc arm haven’t had any problems.

My last brew had 94.6% mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency was at 82.7% which I am more than happy about

Also the last brew I crushed my own grain for the first time with the Grainfather grain mill, top piece of kit

View attachment 96570

What is the recipe?

 

[Elliott 22]

What is the recipe?

Was a neck oil clone

 

[foxy]

Was a neck oil clone

Yes thanks, I know what it was, what was your recipe, grain bill, hops?

 

[Elliott 22]

Yes thanks, I know what it was, what was your recipe, grain bill, hops?

https://share.brewfather.app/V8UjXkFjn750TU

 

[Jiffy176]

Baron.
Without reading the whole thread.
I have the Gen 4.
I use the Grainfather Mill setting 7 one higher than recommended but this prevents any issues on the grainbed.
To be honest on this and my Klarstein I had before I never ran full throttle to start with on the pump but built up to it.
Using setting 7 on the mill did not impact my efficency.
When I've brought shop milled this has caused problems.

 

[The Baron]

Thanks Jiffy seems to be a similar story nothing wrong with the Gen4 but as brewers we need to find what settings work best on it compared to previous AIO's which some us have had.
I have ordered some uncrushed grain to experiment with and I am going to condition it first as it does seem to cut the flour down which IMO is one of the problems that and grain crush which are obviously related.
I have sorted the user settings for the machine and have that working well in manual mode so just the grains to sort out