Force Carbonation or Natural/Priming Sugar?

[Amidared]

Over the weekend I was discussing with other home brewers the carbonation methods used (in cornies) and the general consensus was that most people force carbonate. If you have no time constraints and are not in a hurry to get your latest batch flowing would you or do you use natural/priming carbonation?

It also came up that gas bottles last longer when the beer is primed, something that never crossed my mind. Does anyone have any ideas if this is true and what if any are the advantages of priming? Cheers,

 

[terrym]

If it's CO2 that carbonates your beer it either comes ready made from some sort of cylinder or bulb, or you generate it yourself using yeast on priming sugar. Its basically the same i.e CO2. So 'yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice'. The only difference in my mind is that you get a small alcohol boost if you go the priming sugar route, and the ready made stuff is instantaneous whereas the priming route takes a few days.

 

[Amidared]

If it's CO2 that carbonates your beer it either comes ready made from some sort of cylinder or bulb, or you generate it yourself using yeast on priming sugar. Its basically the same i.e CO2. So 'yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice'. The only difference in my mind is that you get a small alcohol boost if you go the priming sugar route, and the ready made stuff is instantaneous whereas the priming route takes a few days.

Thanks Terry, yeah i understand , well to a point, the principles of carbonation. So in your opinion there is little or no difference in either quality of the end product or in the economics, i.e. that gas bottles last longer? Thats basically what the differences of opinion were about at the weekend and I just wanted to gauge opinion on the forum.

 

[Wabby]

I have recently gone from bottling to kegging with CO2 force carbed.

Would I go back? WOULD I %!$%.

Much easier to keg a batch than bottle 10000000000000 bottles (thats what it felt like anyway) and the carbing is simple: Set the gas to desired PSI from carbonation chart, and leave for a while. Its 'drinkable' within a few days, and perfectly carbed by a weeks time anyhow.

Solution to the wait?? BREW MORE BEER SO THAT YOU DONT HAVE TO WAIT :mrgreen:

 

[Jakeyboi]

Do you condition your Beer in the keg? All the beer I've made starts to taste good at around 4-6 weeks in the bottle. Surely if you are leaving beer in the keg this long you may as well prime it with sugar. If you are not leaving beer in the keg this long do you leave your beer in the fv longer or rack to a secondary? Or do you drink it "green"?. I'm curious because I should have some kegs arriving this week and I'm not sure how I will do it yet.

Jake

 

[Wabby]

I've drank 'a few' cornies at just 3-5 days old from kegging on the gas. Bloody lovely :)

Not had time to age any ... they disappear before hand. lol

 

[Joeyriles]

I am going to be unfashionable here and say: I don't always get the same depth of flavour from the force-carbed keg beer as I do from the stuff that's been bottled.
This could be down to two factors:

1) I have no temperature control and so my keg beer is seriously cold. This is lovely in the summer but at this time of year I need to pour a pint and leave it for about ten minutes before I can really taste anything!

2) The style of beer I like to brew isn't usually designed to be fizzy (best bitters etc.) Possibly the forced carbonation takes something away from the overall flavour that the bottle manages to keep intact.

I still haven't made a proper, hoppy IPA which I think would suit this type of dispensing equipment but, though I love my kegerator for convenience, I am often more impressed with my beer when it has been in the bottle for a while...still a pain in the %£"ng ars3 to bottle up, though!

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
Interesting discussion! I'm paying £20 for a 6.5kg bottle of gas. I don't know how many cornies that will carbonate and serve, but it's obviously not as cheap as the 100 or so grams of sugar needed to carbonate a batch of bottled beer.
I have gone down the force carbing route (not for speed, as the beer continues to condition in the keg, and this needs time) but to avoid sediment in the keg. I have read that it only effects the first couple of pints, but that dispensing tube seems to go very close to the bottom of the keg.
Joeyriles: I have the luxury of a fridge to hold my kegs and an outside shed to brew in. At this time of year the fridge is switched off. I am considering adding a tubular heater to keep the kegs a little warmer and to protect from freezing in the depths of winter.

 

[Amidared]

I've only kegged up a few beers, one of which was an Imperial Stout which took five months to settle and that was pushed with a 70/30 nitro mix so I'm not one really for rushing my beer. Normally I would force carbonate but am now beginning to think I may as well try the keg priming and at least make a comparison. I have a 19L and a 12L keg with another 19L on its way, so I usually end up bottling at least some of each batch even if its only a few litres and I enjoy both bottled and kegged equally. I have two IPAs to be kegged, one to be pushed with co2 and the other with nitro and I'm really beginning to think maybe I'll prime this time. Mind you, I've just signed up to Amazon Prime so maybe I'm getting subliminal hints from that

 

[Amidared]

Hi!
Interesting discussion! I'm paying �£20 for a 6.5kg bottle of gas. I don't know how many cornies that will carbonate and serve,

I have the 6.5 kg too and Adams Gas the suppliers reckon its good for 151 gallons but I somehow dont think I'll get that much from it.

 

[Amidared]

I have recently gone from bottling to kegging with CO2 force carbed.

Would I go back? WOULD I %!$%.

Much easier to keg a batch than bottle 10000000000000 bottles (thats what it felt like anyway) and the carbing is simple: Set the gas to desired PSI from carbonation chart, and leave for a while. Its 'drinkable' within a few days, and perfectly carbed by a weeks time anyhow.

Solution to the wait?? BREW MORE BEER SO THAT YOU DONT HAVE TO WAIT :mrgreen:

Much easier to keg for sure but I actually don't mind bottling if its not as many as you bottle, no more than a couple of dozen at most. I like your solution to the wait. :thumb:

 

[Amidared]

Surely if you are leaving beer in the keg this long you may as well prime it with sugar

I like your thinking, thats how I'm leaning now too. Seems logical to me.

 

[Amidared]

I am going to be unfashionable here and say: I don't always get the same depth of flavour from the force-carbed keg beer as I do from the stuff that's been bottled.
This could be down to two factors:

1) I have no temperature control and so my keg beer is seriously cold. This is lovely in the summer but at this time of year I need to pour a pint and leave it for about ten minutes before I can really taste anything!

2) The style of beer I like to brew isn't usually designed to be fizzy (best bitters etc.) Possibly the forced carbonation takes something away from the overall flavour that the bottle manages to keep intact.

I still haven't made a proper, hoppy IPA which I think would suit this type of dispensing equipment but, though I love my kegerator for convenience, I am often more impressed with my beer when it has been in the bottle for a while...still a pain in the %�£"ng ars3 to bottle up, though!

Yeah I sometimes prefer the bottled beers compared to the kegged of the same beer, well actually no it was just the once but I get what you're saying. But you compare force kegged to bottle primed do you not? Have you tried priming the keg to see if it improves the quality from the keg? I'd like to see or compare to see what the actual difference in the quality of beer when keg primed over force primed. Maybe I'm being naive but roughly 2.4 volumes of co2 to the beer must have some affect on the end product, but is it noticeable?

 

[Personal91]

If it's CO2 that carbonates your beer it either comes ready made from some sort of cylinder or bulb, or you generate it yourself using yeast on priming sugar. Its basically the same i.e CO2. So 'yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice'. The only difference in my mind is that you get a small alcohol boost if you go the priming sugar route, and the ready made stuff is instantaneous whereas the priming route takes a few days.

as terrym says - you get what you pay for - i just prime with sugar as dont really entertain quests with home brew too often (more for me hehe) so i use sugar to carb - i would get CO2 bulbs/cannisters to put more pressure in if needed though -so why not do both :)

 

[Joeyriles]

I suppose I've gone for the force carbonated keg idea because I've heard that sugaring a keg will give you good carbonation but it will obviously generate sediment. As the dip tube is near the bottom it would seem that the first pint or two would be cloudy and after that: all clear. The issue would be if you planned on savouring the keg (though, this is where the co2 canister comes in handy as you can always shoot a little extra in should you need it.)
Maybe I'll try an experiment: my Teutonic lager is probably going to be ready around Christmas time. Why don't I keg it and add sugar and leave it to lager in the fridge for some time before tapping it and seeing what it's like? It's a tall order but I'll do it in the name of science.

 

[Hoppyland]

For me:
Natural carbonation, priming with sugar, much cheaper. But the beer takes longer to condition.
Force-carbonation quicker but more expensive.
Mind you, even with natural carbonation, I needed to top-up with CO2 for the second half of the brew (5 gal keg).
Also, if the beer takes longer to condition, it will likely be of better quality!

 

[Wabby]

Also, if the beer takes longer to condition, it will likely be of better quality!

True. Unless its a hoppy beer in which case it will be less hoppy.

 

[peebee]

Why this either or discussion?

Priming is obviously cheaper and may have some flavour advantages (for British "cask" styles for sure). But priming isn't a great help when initially making sure the "corny" keg is sealed and maintaining pressure while serving.

I do both: When first casked/kegged in a "corny" the beer gets its dose of priming sugar (15-60g depending on what's being made) and sealed with 5PSI. The pressure may drop a bit as CO2 is absorbed by the beer, but is quickly made up by the priming. When it comes to serving on goes the regulator (even the British "cask" styles get 1-2PSI, 0PSI is for Pubs and fast turnover). It doesn't really matter if the priming sugars haven't finished their work. Some British styles get sampled at 3-4 days, most continental or American styles maybe 2-3 weeks (or more).

The CO2 bottle (6Kg) then lasts for ages, but I've read some suggestion that renewing the CO2 after a year is no bad idea.