Electric cars.

[Laner]

Only 50 mpg from a diesel, was this your previous car?

I wish…. No, an old fiat only used around town on very very short runs. We use the Beemer ‘M’ on long runs

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Rubbish.

Unit rate on the price cap is currently 24.86 pence/kWh.

My EV (Hyundai Kona Electric) does 3.5-4m/kWh, meaning it costs 7.1-6.2 pence per mile if on the price cap rate.

My previous ICE car (VW Golf 1.4) would do 300-400 miles on around £70 of petrol, so that's 17-23 pence per mile.

Ok, I stand corrected, 7p per mile is still significantly cheaper than 17p per mile.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I charge form home on the standard rate, so no cheap tariff and it is cheaper than previous ICE cars by quite a bit. But the charges are rigged and can be changed at any point in time by politicians and they will change to extract sufficient tax from us no matter what cars we end up driving.

We try to do the 'right thing' and switched from petrol to diesel, but diesel soon became more expensive, so we were then forced into EV's and they will become more expensive in time, of that you can be quite certain.

No diesel car I've had ever achieved 50mpg....my 2.2 ltr Max managed about 37 mpg normally, could eek it upto about 42mpg on a long uninterrupted run. The 2 litre BMW X3 did about 46mpg no matter how you drove it. Didn't seem to be that sensitive. Then had a VW T5 van and that managed about 39mpg or so from memory, could never quite get that into the 40's. But both are larger heaver cars so to be expected I guess.

Not surprisingly I don't quite get the advertised range in my EV either...so the laboratory conditions they determine the advertised efficiencies seem to be hard to achieve in the real world wether you drive an ICE car or an EV.

 

[AlBrew]

I charge form home on the standard rate, so no cheap tariff and it is cheaper than previous ICE cars by quite a bit. But the charges are rigged and can be changed at any point in time by politicians and they will change to extract sufficient tax from us no matter what cars we end up driving.

We try to do the 'right thing' and switched from petrol to diesel, but diesel soon became more expensive, so we were then forced into EV's and they will become more expensive in time, of that you can be quite certain.

No diesel car I've had ever achieved 50mpg....my 2.2 ltr Max managed about 37 mpg normally, could eek it upto about 42mpg on a long uninterrupted run. The 2 litre BMW X3 did about 46mpg no matter how you drove it. Didn't seem to be that sensitive. Then had a VW T5 van and that managed about 39mpg or so from memory, could never quite get that into the 40's. But both are larger heaver cars so to be expected I guess.

Not surprisingly I don't quite get the advertised range in my EV either...so the laboratory conditions they determine the advertised efficiencies seem to be hard to achieve in the real world wether you drive an ICE car or an EV.

It's going to be much harder to increase the cost of or add tax to electricity that's used only in your car. It's technically possible through either the vehicles API or a dedicated monitored smart meter but the API's if they even exist for every car are all different and we have all seen how the roll out of home smart meters went. And other than making it illegal there's nothing stopping anyone at times from plugging their car into a 3 pin socket or charging from solar and not touching the grid.

I think it's far more likely that we'll get taxed on miles driven as it's easier to track and arguably the fairest.

 

[Polcho]

It's not just cars though, is it. The amount of energy and water AI is consuming needs to be taken into consideration.

 

[AlBrew]

It's not just cars though, is it. The amount of energy and water AI is consuming needs to be taken into consideration.

Bitcoin mining is one of the worst.

Can you imagine aliens looking at us from space and seeing that we consume a huge amount of energy calculating meaningless numbers just to manufacture wealth in what amounts to not much more than a pyramid scheme.

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Bitcoin mining is one of the worst.
Can you imagine aliens looking at us from space and seeing that we consume a huge amount of energy calculating meaningless numbers just to manufacture wealth in what amounts to not much more than a pyramid scheme.

I think they would be far more bemused by the fact we found something in the ground called it gold and for centuries have paid ridiculous amounts of money for things made out of it.

 

[AlBrew]

I think they would be far more bemused by the fact we found something in the ground called it gold and for centuries have paid ridiculous amounts of money for things made out of it.

Bit it's shiney!

 

[hoppyscotty]

It's going to be much harder to increase the cost of or add tax to electricity that's used only in your car. It's technically possible through either the vehicles API or a dedicated monitored smart meter but the API's if they even exist for every car are all different and we have all seen how the roll out of home smart meters went. And other than making it illegal there's nothing stopping anyone at times from plugging their car into a 3 pin socket or charging from solar and not touching the grid.

I think it's far more likely that we'll get taxed on miles driven as it's easier to track and arguably the fairest.

What makes you think they'll selective about the tax just for electricity for cars? They're in the process of demonising the use of all energy just laying the groundwork for higher electricity costs forever. You really dont believe we're going to see a reduction in electricity costs at any time do you? electricity used to be 3 times pricier than gas and now its 4 times pricier than gas - its on the rise. Once we're on electricity 100% running heat pumps, driving EV's utterly reliant on electricity they can do whatever they like to the cost of electricity...what you going to do about it? just bend over and take it sunny Jim. it is not the ambition for them to reduce energy costs.

And in any case with modern apps, EV's and smart meters, more and more of your appliances connected, they already know where every watt of electricity you're using is going so can easily charge a different tax rate on EV electricity if they wanted to - there are already EV specific tarrifs, but they wont pass up a golden opportunity - they'll use the excuse that the cost of the bureaucracy to manage all that outweighs the benefit so they'll just charge a flat rate for all the watts you use - that excuse has already been used so precedent for it. All these cheap tariffs that are currently on offer by the energy companies will be outlawed, they're only tolerated now to coerce us over to smart meters, EV's heat pumps etc. Ultimately they'll do what they want whenever they want on a whim. nothing you can do about it.

OK maybe some of what I say above wont come to pass, but most of it will in some guise or other - energy is going to cost us alot more in the future. I'm a cynical b'stard, but my cynicism has served me very well over the years. Especially when it comes to my instincts on politicians.

As for being taxed on the miles driven...that is exactly what's been happening for the past however many decades. You tax fuel you're taxing miles driven. I agree it is the fairest system because it covers all bases beautifully...you want to drive a big inefficient V8 muscle car...fine, you'll pay more tax because you'll be buying more fuel...want to drive a super efficient small car...bingo, you'll hardly ever need to visit the pumps...you want to drive 50000 miles a year...fair enough, but you'll pay for it. Guess that will work the same with EV's. So no need at all for a separate charge per mile mechanism. But they'll do it anyway. They already pretty much have most of the country covered with the camera infrastructure needed from speeding cameras, congestion zone cameras, ulez cameras etc. Not a big or hard step to connect all those cameras and link to license plate recognition software and bingo...they can track every mm you drive on the road pretty much.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Thats why you don't here of armed robberys anymore there is no way to get away

 

[AlBrew]

What makes you think they'll selective about the tax just for electricity for cars? They're in the process of demonising the use of all energy just laying the groundwork for higher electricity costs forever. You really dont believe we're going to see a reduction in electricity costs at any time do you? electricity used to be 3 times pricier than gas and now its 4 times pricier than gas - its on the rise. Once we're on electricity 100% running heat pumps, driving EV's utterly reliant on electricity they can do whatever they like to the cost of electricity...what you going to do about it? just bend over and take it sunny Jim. it is not the ambition for them to reduce energy costs.

And in any case with modern apps, EV's and smart meters, more and more of your appliances connected, they already know where every watt of electricity you're using is going so can easily charge a different tax rate on EV electricity if they wanted to - there are already EV specific tarrifs, but they wont pass up a golden opportunity - they'll use the excuse that the cost of the bureaucracy to manage all that outweighs the benefit so they'll just charge a flat rate for all the watts you use - that excuse has already been used so precedent for it. All these cheap tariffs that are currently on offer by the energy companies will be outlawed, they're only tolerated now to coerce us over to smart meters, EV's heat pumps etc. Ultimately they'll do what they want whenever they want on a whim. nothing you can do about it.

OK maybe some of what I say above wont come to pass, but most of it will in some guise or other - energy is going to cost us alot more in the future. I'm a cynical b'stard, but my cynicism has served me very well over the years. Especially when it comes to my instincts on politicians.

As for being taxed on the miles driven...that is exactly what's been happening for the past however many decades. You tax fuel you're taxing miles driven. I agree it is the fairest system because it covers all bases beautifully...you want to drive a big inefficient V8 muscle car...fine, you'll pay more tax because you'll be buying more fuel...want to drive a super efficient small car...bingo, you'll hardly ever need to visit the pumps...you want to drive 50000 miles a year...fair enough, but you'll pay for it. Guess that will work the same with EV's. So no need at all for a separate charge per mile mechanism. But they'll do it anyway. They already pretty much have most of the country covered with the camera infrastructure needed from speeding cameras, congestion zone cameras, ulez cameras etc. Not a big or hard step to connect all those cameras and link to license plate recognition software and bingo...they can track every mm you drive on the road pretty much.

I've asked it of others before on this thread and haven't had a response but who are "They"?

If you mean our elected representatives then fine, cast your vote.

If you mean big business then take it to your elected representative.

If you mean the lizard folk who control our elected representatives and big business CEO's... I don't have an answer for that.

Seriously though, putting aside the (few?) obviously not totally sqeeky clean rule makers that we elect, rules have to be made by the others to satisfy our needs and desires as a population. Some of those rules are utter nonsense, none of those rules are good for everyone but there is some reason for every decision, it's not all done for conspiracy, evil and greed, as far as I understand the world at least.

 

[gavp1979]

What makes you think they'll selective about the tax just for electricity for cars? They're in the process of demonising the use of all energy just laying the groundwork for higher electricity costs forever. You really dont believe we're going to see a reduction in electricity costs at any time do you? electricity used to be 3 times pricier than gas and now its 4 times pricier than gas - its on the rise. Once we're on electricity 100% running heat pumps, driving EV's utterly reliant on electricity they can do whatever they like to the cost of electricity...what you going to do about it? just bend over and take it sunny Jim. it is not the ambition for them to reduce energy costs.

And in any case with modern apps, EV's and smart meters, more and more of your appliances connected, they already know where every watt of electricity you're using is going so can easily charge a different tax rate on EV electricity if they wanted to - there are already EV specific tarrifs, but they wont pass up a golden opportunity - they'll use the excuse that the cost of the bureaucracy to manage all that outweighs the benefit so they'll just charge a flat rate for all the watts you use - that excuse has already been used so precedent for it. All these cheap tariffs that are currently on offer by the energy companies will be outlawed, they're only tolerated now to coerce us over to smart meters, EV's heat pumps etc. Ultimately they'll do what they want whenever they want on a whim. nothing you can do about it.

OK maybe some of what I say above wont come to pass, but most of it will in some guise or other - energy is going to cost us alot more in the future. I'm a cynical b'stard, but my cynicism has served me very well over the years. Especially when it comes to my instincts on politicians.

As for being taxed on the miles driven...that is exactly what's been happening for the past however many decades. You tax fuel you're taxing miles driven. I agree it is the fairest system because it covers all bases beautifully...you want to drive a big inefficient V8 muscle car...fine, you'll pay more tax because you'll be buying more fuel...want to drive a super efficient small car...bingo, you'll hardly ever need to visit the pumps...you want to drive 50000 miles a year...fair enough, but you'll pay for it. Guess that will work the same with EV's. So no need at all for a separate charge per mile mechanism. But they'll do it anyway. They already pretty much have most of the country covered with the camera infrastructure needed from speeding cameras, congestion zone cameras, ulez cameras etc. Not a big or hard step to connect all those cameras and link to license plate recognition software and bingo...they can track every mm you drive on the road pretty much.

Jesus, I know you self titled yourself a cynical b'stard but how much energy do you use to come with this lot have a beer and enjoy your Friday evening

 

[AlBrew]

Jesus, I know you self titled yourself a cynical b'stard but how much energy do you use to come with this lot have a beer and enjoy your Friday evening

Isn't this the enjoyment of a Friday evening!?

 

[gavp1979]

I suppose it is for some