Electric cars.

[Laner]

Only 50 mpg from a diesel, was this your previous car?

I wish…. No, an old fiat only used around town on very very short runs. We use the Beemer ‘M’ on long runs

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Rubbish.

Unit rate on the price cap is currently 24.86 pence/kWh.

My EV (Hyundai Kona Electric) does 3.5-4m/kWh, meaning it costs 7.1-6.2 pence per mile if on the price cap rate.

My previous ICE car (VW Golf 1.4) would do 300-400 miles on around £70 of petrol, so that's 17-23 pence per mile.

Ok, I stand corrected, 7p per mile is still significantly cheaper than 17p per mile.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I charge form home on the standard rate, so no cheap tariff and it is cheaper than previous ICE cars by quite a bit. But the charges are rigged and can be changed at any point in time by politicians and they will change to extract sufficient tax from us no matter what cars we end up driving.

We try to do the 'right thing' and switched from petrol to diesel, but diesel soon became more expensive, so we were then forced into EV's and they will become more expensive in time, of that you can be quite certain.

No diesel car I've had ever achieved 50mpg....my 2.2 ltr Max managed about 37 mpg normally, could eek it upto about 42mpg on a long uninterrupted run. The 2 litre BMW X3 did about 46mpg no matter how you drove it. Didn't seem to be that sensitive. Then had a VW T5 van and that managed about 39mpg or so from memory, could never quite get that into the 40's. But both are larger heaver cars so to be expected I guess.

Not surprisingly I don't quite get the advertised range in my EV either...so the laboratory conditions they determine the advertised efficiencies seem to be hard to achieve in the real world wether you drive an ICE car or an EV.

 

[AlBrew]

I charge form home on the standard rate, so no cheap tariff and it is cheaper than previous ICE cars by quite a bit. But the charges are rigged and can be changed at any point in time by politicians and they will change to extract sufficient tax from us no matter what cars we end up driving.

We try to do the 'right thing' and switched from petrol to diesel, but diesel soon became more expensive, so we were then forced into EV's and they will become more expensive in time, of that you can be quite certain.

No diesel car I've had ever achieved 50mpg....my 2.2 ltr Max managed about 37 mpg normally, could eek it upto about 42mpg on a long uninterrupted run. The 2 litre BMW X3 did about 46mpg no matter how you drove it. Didn't seem to be that sensitive. Then had a VW T5 van and that managed about 39mpg or so from memory, could never quite get that into the 40's. But both are larger heaver cars so to be expected I guess.

Not surprisingly I don't quite get the advertised range in my EV either...so the laboratory conditions they determine the advertised efficiencies seem to be hard to achieve in the real world wether you drive an ICE car or an EV.

It's going to be much harder to increase the cost of or add tax to electricity that's used only in your car. It's technically possible through either the vehicles API or a dedicated monitored smart meter but the API's if they even exist for every car are all different and we have all seen how the roll out of home smart meters went. And other than making it illegal there's nothing stopping anyone at times from plugging their car into a 3 pin socket or charging from solar and not touching the grid.

I think it's far more likely that we'll get taxed on miles driven as it's easier to track and arguably the fairest.

 

[Polcho]

It's not just cars though, is it. The amount of energy and water AI is consuming needs to be taken into consideration.

 

[AlBrew]

It's not just cars though, is it. The amount of energy and water AI is consuming needs to be taken into consideration.

Bitcoin mining is one of the worst.

Can you imagine aliens looking at us from space and seeing that we consume a huge amount of energy calculating meaningless numbers just to manufacture wealth in what amounts to not much more than a pyramid scheme.

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Bitcoin mining is one of the worst.
Can you imagine aliens looking at us from space and seeing that we consume a huge amount of energy calculating meaningless numbers just to manufacture wealth in what amounts to not much more than a pyramid scheme.

I think they would be far more bemused by the fact we found something in the ground called it gold and for centuries have paid ridiculous amounts of money for things made out of it.

 

[AlBrew]

I think they would be far more bemused by the fact we found something in the ground called it gold and for centuries have paid ridiculous amounts of money for things made out of it.

Bit it's shiney!

 

[hoppyscotty]

It's going to be much harder to increase the cost of or add tax to electricity that's used only in your car. It's technically possible through either the vehicles API or a dedicated monitored smart meter but the API's if they even exist for every car are all different and we have all seen how the roll out of home smart meters went. And other than making it illegal there's nothing stopping anyone at times from plugging their car into a 3 pin socket or charging from solar and not touching the grid.

I think it's far more likely that we'll get taxed on miles driven as it's easier to track and arguably the fairest.

What makes you think they'll selective about the tax just for electricity for cars? They're in the process of demonising the use of all energy just laying the groundwork for higher electricity costs forever. You really dont believe we're going to see a reduction in electricity costs at any time do you? electricity used to be 3 times pricier than gas and now its 4 times pricier than gas - its on the rise. Once we're on electricity 100% running heat pumps, driving EV's utterly reliant on electricity they can do whatever they like to the cost of electricity...what you going to do about it? just bend over and take it sunny Jim. it is not the ambition for them to reduce energy costs.

And in any case with modern apps, EV's and smart meters, more and more of your appliances connected, they already know where every watt of electricity you're using is going so can easily charge a different tax rate on EV electricity if they wanted to - there are already EV specific tarrifs, but they wont pass up a golden opportunity - they'll use the excuse that the cost of the bureaucracy to manage all that outweighs the benefit so they'll just charge a flat rate for all the watts you use - that excuse has already been used so precedent for it. All these cheap tariffs that are currently on offer by the energy companies will be outlawed, they're only tolerated now to coerce us over to smart meters, EV's heat pumps etc. Ultimately they'll do what they want whenever they want on a whim. nothing you can do about it.

OK maybe some of what I say above wont come to pass, but most of it will in some guise or other - energy is going to cost us alot more in the future. I'm a cynical b'stard, but my cynicism has served me very well over the years. Especially when it comes to my instincts on politicians.

As for being taxed on the miles driven...that is exactly what's been happening for the past however many decades. You tax fuel you're taxing miles driven. I agree it is the fairest system because it covers all bases beautifully...you want to drive a big inefficient V8 muscle car...fine, you'll pay more tax because you'll be buying more fuel...want to drive a super efficient small car...bingo, you'll hardly ever need to visit the pumps...you want to drive 50000 miles a year...fair enough, but you'll pay for it. Guess that will work the same with EV's. So no need at all for a separate charge per mile mechanism. But they'll do it anyway. They already pretty much have most of the country covered with the camera infrastructure needed from speeding cameras, congestion zone cameras, ulez cameras etc. Not a big or hard step to connect all those cameras and link to license plate recognition software and bingo...they can track every mm you drive on the road pretty much.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Thats why you don't here of armed robberys anymore there is no way to get away

 

[AlBrew]

What makes you think they'll selective about the tax just for electricity for cars? They're in the process of demonising the use of all energy just laying the groundwork for higher electricity costs forever. You really dont believe we're going to see a reduction in electricity costs at any time do you? electricity used to be 3 times pricier than gas and now its 4 times pricier than gas - its on the rise. Once we're on electricity 100% running heat pumps, driving EV's utterly reliant on electricity they can do whatever they like to the cost of electricity...what you going to do about it? just bend over and take it sunny Jim. it is not the ambition for them to reduce energy costs.

And in any case with modern apps, EV's and smart meters, more and more of your appliances connected, they already know where every watt of electricity you're using is going so can easily charge a different tax rate on EV electricity if they wanted to - there are already EV specific tarrifs, but they wont pass up a golden opportunity - they'll use the excuse that the cost of the bureaucracy to manage all that outweighs the benefit so they'll just charge a flat rate for all the watts you use - that excuse has already been used so precedent for it. All these cheap tariffs that are currently on offer by the energy companies will be outlawed, they're only tolerated now to coerce us over to smart meters, EV's heat pumps etc. Ultimately they'll do what they want whenever they want on a whim. nothing you can do about it.

OK maybe some of what I say above wont come to pass, but most of it will in some guise or other - energy is going to cost us alot more in the future. I'm a cynical b'stard, but my cynicism has served me very well over the years. Especially when it comes to my instincts on politicians.

As for being taxed on the miles driven...that is exactly what's been happening for the past however many decades. You tax fuel you're taxing miles driven. I agree it is the fairest system because it covers all bases beautifully...you want to drive a big inefficient V8 muscle car...fine, you'll pay more tax because you'll be buying more fuel...want to drive a super efficient small car...bingo, you'll hardly ever need to visit the pumps...you want to drive 50000 miles a year...fair enough, but you'll pay for it. Guess that will work the same with EV's. So no need at all for a separate charge per mile mechanism. But they'll do it anyway. They already pretty much have most of the country covered with the camera infrastructure needed from speeding cameras, congestion zone cameras, ulez cameras etc. Not a big or hard step to connect all those cameras and link to license plate recognition software and bingo...they can track every mm you drive on the road pretty much.

I've asked it of others before on this thread and haven't had a response but who are "They"?

If you mean our elected representatives then fine, cast your vote.

If you mean big business then take it to your elected representative.

If you mean the lizard folk who control our elected representatives and big business CEO's... I don't have an answer for that.

Seriously though, putting aside the (few?) obviously not totally sqeeky clean rule makers that we elect, rules have to be made by the others to satisfy our needs and desires as a population. Some of those rules are utter nonsense, none of those rules are good for everyone but there is some reason for every decision, it's not all done for conspiracy, evil and greed, as far as I understand the world at least.

 

[gavp1979]

What makes you think they'll selective about the tax just for electricity for cars? They're in the process of demonising the use of all energy just laying the groundwork for higher electricity costs forever. You really dont believe we're going to see a reduction in electricity costs at any time do you? electricity used to be 3 times pricier than gas and now its 4 times pricier than gas - its on the rise. Once we're on electricity 100% running heat pumps, driving EV's utterly reliant on electricity they can do whatever they like to the cost of electricity...what you going to do about it? just bend over and take it sunny Jim. it is not the ambition for them to reduce energy costs.

And in any case with modern apps, EV's and smart meters, more and more of your appliances connected, they already know where every watt of electricity you're using is going so can easily charge a different tax rate on EV electricity if they wanted to - there are already EV specific tarrifs, but they wont pass up a golden opportunity - they'll use the excuse that the cost of the bureaucracy to manage all that outweighs the benefit so they'll just charge a flat rate for all the watts you use - that excuse has already been used so precedent for it. All these cheap tariffs that are currently on offer by the energy companies will be outlawed, they're only tolerated now to coerce us over to smart meters, EV's heat pumps etc. Ultimately they'll do what they want whenever they want on a whim. nothing you can do about it.

OK maybe some of what I say above wont come to pass, but most of it will in some guise or other - energy is going to cost us alot more in the future. I'm a cynical b'stard, but my cynicism has served me very well over the years. Especially when it comes to my instincts on politicians.

As for being taxed on the miles driven...that is exactly what's been happening for the past however many decades. You tax fuel you're taxing miles driven. I agree it is the fairest system because it covers all bases beautifully...you want to drive a big inefficient V8 muscle car...fine, you'll pay more tax because you'll be buying more fuel...want to drive a super efficient small car...bingo, you'll hardly ever need to visit the pumps...you want to drive 50000 miles a year...fair enough, but you'll pay for it. Guess that will work the same with EV's. So no need at all for a separate charge per mile mechanism. But they'll do it anyway. They already pretty much have most of the country covered with the camera infrastructure needed from speeding cameras, congestion zone cameras, ulez cameras etc. Not a big or hard step to connect all those cameras and link to license plate recognition software and bingo...they can track every mm you drive on the road pretty much.

Jesus, I know you self titled yourself a cynical b'stard but how much energy do you use to come with this lot have a beer and enjoy your Friday evening

 

[AlBrew]

Jesus, I know you self titled yourself a cynical b'stard but how much energy do you use to come with this lot have a beer and enjoy your Friday evening

Isn't this the enjoyment of a Friday evening!?

 

[gavp1979]

I suppose it is for some

 

[Polcho]

Bitcoin mining is one of the worst.

Can you imagine aliens looking at us from space and seeing that we consume a huge amount of energy calculating meaningless numbers just to manufacture wealth in what amounts to not much more than a pyramid scheme.

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Didn't think of that, but it's true, there could be a lot better/fairer ways to to rais money. Like taxing these sort of nonsense activities, rathr than going after easy targets.
It like the importation of things we already have here, in those circumstances, it mayy be worth considering taxing those heavily, all the travel miles and cheap, exploited labour involved in all that.

it's like, we import thousands of tonnes of of sheep meat from New Zealand and Australia, yet we are still a net exporter of Sheep meat.
It doesn't make sence if you agree with the 'global warming' argument.
I mean, moving product around, just to make money is good for business, but it can't be helping this drive all this net zero, can it?

 

[stripeyjoe]

If tax revenues from motor vehicles goes down then taxes somewhere else would need to rise to cover the loss. As more and more people move to EVs from ICE cars then the fuel tax and current VED banding will not raise the same amount of revenue as it used to. Hence the move to a different banding system for VED to try and keep the income stream around the same.
I would prefer a much lower VED with a higher price per mile charge based on the size of your car, where you are driving, how busy it is and how necessary it is you use a private motor vehicle (eg, you're disabled, you drive between different places for work with no fixed office, you deliver stuff, there's no local public transport etc). With less 'sunk cost' and a higher usage cost then people would be encouraged to use public transport when available.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

BREAKING: Elon Musk Announces Tesla’s NEW Aluminum ion Super Battery with 15 min Charging

Tesla, led by the visioпary Eloп Mυsk, has oпce agaiп takeп a giaпt leap iп iппovatioп, this time with the iпtrodυctioп of aп alυmiпυm-ioп battery poised to redefiпe the fυtυre of electric vehicles (EVs). Promisiпg a groυпdbreakiпg 15-miпυte chargiпg time, this cυttiпg-edɡe techпology coυld propel Tesla to пew heights aпd reshape the traпsportatioп iпdυstry as we kпow it.

Let’s delve iпto the details of how this latest advaпcemeпt coυld traпsform EVs aпd beyoпd.From its early days, Tesla has υпderstood that the battery is the һeагt of aпy electric vehicle, dictatiпg its raпge, performaпce, aпd сoѕt. This recogпitioп spυrred the compaпy to embark oп releпtless iппovatioп iп battery desigп, startiпg with its first-geпeratioп lithiυm-ioп cells iп the origiпal Tesla Roadster

These early cyliпdrical cells, kпowп as 18650 cells, set the stage for Tesla’s domiпaпce iп the EV market. However, as the compaпy expaпded, so did its пeed for more powerfυl aпd efficieпt batteries. This led to the iпtrodυctioп of the 2170 cells iп the Model 3 aпd Model Y, followed by the groυпdbreakiпg 4680 cells υпveiled dυriпg Tesla’s 2020 Battery Day.

The 4680 cells broυght sigпificaпt improvemeпts, iпclυdiпg a fivefold iпcrease iп eпergy deпsity aпd a sixfold Ьooѕt iп рoweг oυtpυt. Yet, Eloп Mυsk aпd his team were пot satisfied. They eпvisioпed batteries that coυld сһагɡe faster, last loпger, aпd iпtegrate seamlessly iпto a vehicle’s strυctυre—goals that have cυlmiпated iп the developmeпt of Tesla’s alυmiпυm-ioп battery.

Αlυmiпυm-Ioп Batteries: Α New eга

Tesla’s alυmiпυm-ioп battery is a moпυmeпtal ѕһіft from traditioпal lithiυm-ioп techпology. Here’s why it staпds oυt:

1. Uпmatched Chargiпg Speeds
   With a rapid 15-miпυte chargiпg time, the alυmiпυm-ioп battery addresses oпe of the most sigпificaпt barriers to EV adoptioп: loпg chargiпg dυratioпs. This improvemeпt coυld make chargiпg aп EV as qυick aпd coпveпieпt as refυeliпg a gasoliпe-powered car.
2. Higher Eпergy Deпsity
   Αlυmiпυm-ioп batteries pack more eпergy iпto a smaller, lighter package, eпabliпg EVs to achieve loпger raпges withoυt iпcreasiпg battery size. This iппovatioп coυld pave the way for υltra-loпg-raпge EVs capable of exceediпg 500 miles per сһагɡe.
3. Eпhaпced Safety aпd Loпgevity
   Αlυmiпυm-ioп techпology miпimizes the гіѕkѕ of overheatiпg aпd thermal rυпaway, thaпks to its advaпced thermal maпagemeпt systems aпd пoп-flammable materials. This resυlts iп a safer aпd more dυrable battery with a loпger lifespaп.
4. Sυstaiпability aпd сoѕt Efficieпcy
   By redυciпg reliaпce oп scarce materials like cobalt, the alυmiпυm-ioп battery пot oпly lowers ргodυctioп costs bυt also mitigates ethical aпd eпviroпmeпtal coпcerпs associated with miпiпg.

Αpplicatioпs Beyoпd EVs

Tesla’s alυmiпυm-ioп battery has implicatioпs far beyoпd electric vehicles:

• Resideпtial Eпergy Storage
  Homeowпers coυld achieve greater eпergy iпdepeпdeпce by υsiпg compact, high-capacity battery systems to store reпewable eпergy for exteпded periods.
• Electric Αviatioп
  The lightweight aпd high-deпsity desigп makes alυmiпυm-ioп batteries ideal for poweriпg electric plaпes, poteпtially revolυtioпiziпg the aviatioп iпdυstry by eпabliпg cleaп, efficieпt regioпal flights.
• Space Exploratioп
  гoЬυst, loпg-lastiпg рoweг soυrces are esseпtial for exteпded space missioпs. Tesla’s batteries coυld sυpport life sυpport systems, scieпtific eqυipmeпt, aпd other critical fυпctioпs iп space exploratioп.

Challeпges aпd the Road Αһeаd

While Tesla’s alυmiпυm-ioп battery represeпts a breakthroυgh, challeпges remaiп. Scaliпg ргodυctioп, пavigatiпg regυlatory compliaпce, aпd eпcoυragiпg coпsυmer adoptioп are sigпificaпt hυrdles that Mυsk’s team mυst overcome. However, Tesla’s tгасk гeсoгd of traпsformiпg ambitioυs coпcepts iпto reality sυggests that these oЬѕtасɩeѕ are sυrmoυпtable.

Coпclυsioп

Eloп Mυsk’s latest aппoυпcemeпt marks a defiпiпg momeпt iп the joυrпey toward sυstaiпable eпergy aпd traпsportatioп. The alυmiпυm-ioп battery coυld пot oпly accelerate the mass adoptioп of EVs bυt also υпlock пew possibilities across varioυs iпdυstries, from aviatioп to space exploratioп.

Αs Mυsk coпtiпυes to pυsh the boυпdaries of what’s possible, oпe thiпg is clear: the fυtυre of mobility is electric, efficieпt, aпd iпcredibly excitiпg. With this iппovatioп, Tesla is пot jυst stayiпg аһeаd of the cυrve—it’s shapiпg the cυrve itself.

https://edition.chainityai.com/brea...attery-with-15-min-charging-video-in-comment/

 

[Nicks90]

BREAKING: Elon Musk Announces Tesla’s NEW Aluminum ion Super Battery with 15 min Charging

https://edition.chainityai.com/brea...attery-with-15-min-charging-video-in-comment/

Unfortunately its click bait
See here
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/...ce-new-aluminum-battery-in-December-2024.html

When you search t'interweb for that announcement there are loads of hits and results on FB, insta etc, all referencing exactly the same article you linked

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Before getting too carried away about any announcement, real or fake, it's worth pointing out that the Zeekr 007 is already on sale in China in a 428-mile version that can charge 10-80% (ie 300 miles) in 10.5 minutes, and a 541-mile version.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Are lower cost electric car loans on the way? Plans afoot to cut finance costs for EV buyers​

UK Government is in talks with finance industry over guarantees aimed at reducing interest rates​

Link: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/365772/are-lower-cost-electric-car-loans-way


My reading between the lines of this is that the government is asking finance companies to give EV buyers low/zero interest loans, and possibly in return they'll get let off the hook for compensation to car buyers for the non-disclosure of commission payments.

It will certainly help EV adoption if it happens.