Electric cars.

[Larse]

That's 2 more on the ignore list

Maybe forums aren't for you.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

That's 2 more on the ignore list

You are going to end up talking to yourself at this rate Rod

If you don't reply i will know i was put on the list before today

 

[Rodcx500z]

No you won't be on it Chippy

 

[Nicks90]

That's 2 more on the ignore list

Ohohohoh I bet that's me!
Feels like a little win right there!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

What do Autotrader know about the used car market anyway?
https://plc.autotrader.co.uk/news-v...-trade-price-cuts-fade-into-rear-view-mirror/
Auto Trader assesses over 800,000 daily pricing observations from across the whole retail market. It shows that the average price of a used car last month was £16,408, down -7.4% year-on-year (YoY) on a like-for-like basis but the lowest annual decline since December 2023.

Month-on-month, the market has risen 1%...Used electric cars performed well in October too with used BEV prices rising (2.1%) MoM for the first time in two years, likely due to sustained demand throughout the year, renewing retailer confidence in the second-hand electric market. Speed of sale for the 3-5 year old electric segment sits at an impressive 19 days, one day faster than September and the fastest across all segments. [versus 29 days for the market as a whole]

 

[hoppyscotty]

I've had an EV for over 18 months. I've driven through England. France, Spain, Netherlands etc often doing 400 miles in a day. In all that time, I have only had to queue once for a charger, and that was for no more than a minute. I have encountered vanishingly few broken chargers.

Most top ups take no longer than going to the loo and having a coffee and leg stretch.

I don't drive a Tesla.

And yet my experience is very different.

Usually have to queue for a charger (Tesla driver here yes there are alot of Tesla chargers...but there are alot of Tesla's and when a non-Tesla uses a Tesla charger it usually takes up two stalls because of the location of the charger port) and usually have limited amount of charge because they are so busy so want to limit charge time to increase capacity. Driving in the continent if you stay on the autoroutes then it is alot better than in the UK and generally pretty good depending which autoroute you're on, but often you have to drive a number of miles off the autoroute to a shopping centre, or hotel car park, on the outskirts of a town or city, so another 5 to 10 minutes of driving to and the same again to get back onto the autoroute to charge...then hanging around a shopping centre for 40 minutes or so to charge, which when you are driving 400 miles and having to stop off 3 or 4 times to cover that mileage it becomes a bit tedious especially when in my previous ICE car we'd only need to stop for a toilet break and had plenty of range without having to refuel - and even with the wife and kids in tow a toilet stop doesnt take an hour so the nonsense about 'you can charge while to have a toilet stop' is nonsense.

And then you have to choose between range and time...want to maximise efficiency then you have to drive slower and the journey takes even longer. Want to exploit the higher speed limits on the continent then you pay dearly with range and at least one additional, most likely inconvenient stop to charge, which means leaving for the ferry port two hours earlier than you would with an ICE car...one hour for the stop you know you're going to have to make and an hour contingency just in case - get a flat tyre? the swapping out the wheel or waiting for the French equivalent to the RAC or AA eats into your charging time - I know from experience.

Then go cross country trying to find chargers without doing massive detour becomes a massive planning exercise requiring several apps, a plan B or plan C in case there is a problem with the solitary charger in the middle of the French countryside for miles becomes very limiting and destroys any spontaneity you might desire to just pop out for the day. was in the Loire a couple of years ago on a cross country jaunt and needing a charge en route. Two chargers were not working so had to then go on a detour to find one which took us down to less than 5% charge, so was last chance saloon if that third charger was not working. Then stop off in a nice Frech city...drive to the EV charging bay to charge while you park...good luck with that...all taken so do you wait while one frees up eating into your tourist time or part up and worry about charging when you leave? All these decisions you have to make as an EV driver that are just not even a micro consideration if you have an ICE car.

Then depleting most of my charge to drive from mid-France to a ferry terminal with no chargers at the ferry terminal and getting off at the UK side at 11pm with hardly any charge at night then having to drive 10 minutes out of my way to find the nearest charger and hang around for an hour to charge in the middle of an industrial estate where everything is closed with no facilities around and not setting off for home til long after midnight and getting home a good couple of hours or so after you would have with an ICE car. Last time I did that in a diesel I had enough range in one tank to go from mid France to home, so again not even a consideration.

Those who claim the charging is as convenient as ICE are either massive propagandists or have been very very lucky. We've not even begun to scratch the surface of what is needed to be built to ge an anyway near half decent and convenient charging network that is as convenient as ICE cars...and it really really needs to be.

And before anyone tries to discredit my experience by saying I'm anti ev...I'm not...I have no fight in this battle, apart from the thing about EV's not being fun to drive (but I'm happy to have a second fun ICE car so not even blaming that). My experiences are genuine and have been a real PITA. Some have had different experiences for sure but the fact I've had the experienced I've had demonstrates that the network is not yet anywhere near where it needs to be to replicate a similar experience to an ICE car. For 95% of my driving my EV is fine. But it's that last 5% where I want and need everything to be easy and convenience and therefore carries alot more weight than the 95% of the rest of the short local journeys. The next time I go for a jaunt into the continent I'll seriously consider renting a Diesel car.

We'll see as time goes on, but right now while we're a two car family then there is no way we'd have two EV's, we'll alway maintain an ICE car until things significantly improve.

And waffling on about cost all the time...convenience is alot more valuable to most people than money so that argument will never land. The money always finds you wether you drive an ICE or EV. You will end up paying eventually...always. All cars are just a massive cash cow for our political overlords. They will ream you till you squeal, then when you start to squeal they'll ream you some more. Nobody is escaping it...you might think you are but you just haven't seen how they are reaming you yet. EV's are more costly to buy, the depreciate more, they are more costly to insure.. You are paying..the money always finds you. Pride comes before a fall...all the gloating EV people have a rude awakening coming.

 

[Rodcx500z]

And yet my experience is very different

Well said HS, i am off to Devon on Monday for a short break in the 1.0L Juke, 268 miles each way, i will do one no fuel break on the M5 and will still have over a 1/4 of tank left. will do the same on the way back, a lot on here think i am anti ev i am not i just don't think it is the way forward

 

[Larse]

Nobody is escaping it...you might think you are but you just haven't seen how they are reaming you yet. EV's are more costly to buy, the depreciate more, they are more costly to insure.. You are paying..the money always finds you. Pride comes before a fall...all the gloating EV people have a rude awakening coming.

EVs are now much closer in price to their equivalent ICE. 12% according to New Automotive. Payback of that difference is less than one year in 30% of cases. Cost of insurance differs by model, but by and large relates to differences in performance, where only the smallest EVs will have comparable performance to an average petrol car. Most EVs will have in excess of 200bhp and many are easily double that.

For no apparent reason, servicing costs are never compared. EVs are much cheaper to service. Many manufacturers give free servicing for the length of the vehicle warranty.

I wouldn't dream of calling your experience into question, but since we're speaking anecdotally, my experience is the diametric opposite of yours. I intend to drive on the continent in the next few months, so I'll be interested to see if your experience is borne out by mine.

As for your last sentence. Wut?

 

[JockyBrewer]

EVs are only more expensive now because the makers are choosing to make more expensive models of cars.

When looking at second hand Hyundai Konas recently cars I found that the price difference between an EV and Hybrid was almost nothing once you were looking at similar spec, age and mileage cars.

 

[MashBag]

I thought this was a plug thing.
Only certain newer cars have the right tesla "port" to be able to use the tesla charging network. Toyota have been on about adopting it.