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Don't be shocked. There is usually an immediate loss the second you drive or off the forecourt.3 month old defender just lost £14(k in value.
What was the original price, nearly £90k?
Don't be shocked. There is usually an immediate loss the second you drive or off the forecourt.3 month old defender just lost £14(k in value.
I love it when people add facts to a thread
Given the amount of time you spend arguing from personal disbelief rather than easily discoverable fact, you might want to consider your own position on that continuum....I agree. Do feel free to give it a try sometime...
I suggested that road pricing will not discriminate between ICE and EVs, the fact that you are surprised by that proposition seems to be based on vastly overestimating the desire of government to "financially incentivise the takeup of EVs" when in fact they've reduced most of the overt subsidies like £5k against purchase price and now the Congestion Charge exemption - partly because they just can't afford to do otherwise. All that's left now is the company car benefit and a small contribution towards chargers in certain properties and I suspect they will go in the course of the next Parliament - the trend is clear.You are right that the London CC shows us how this might go - but the big point is this. There are two diametrically opposed policy objectives here - one is financially incentivising the takeup of EVs and the other is the tax revenue required, currently delivered by fuel duty and likely in future delivered by road pricing. The only way I can think of to fix the revenue issue, whilst providing the same incentive for EVs is to introduce road pricing for all vehicles and leave overall fuel tax at the current very high level.
Just to get things in perspective, fuel duty is expected to raise £24.3bn in 2023-4, so £867 per household or £16.63 per household per week. So even if there were no ICE cars on the road (so some time after 2050) and had to replace all fuel duty with road pricing, you're not looking at impossible amounts of money. Yes it would (rightly!) be unevenly spread, but you could imagine it might look like £5 per hour that you use the M25 in rush hour. Compare that with £8.90 to use the M6 Toll road for instance.I think that is likely to produce a national level outcry on a par with the London ULEZ objections (which swung the Uxbridge by-election, suggesting it will influence how people vote). It will disproportionally affect lower income ICE drivers, just like ULEZ. As you suggest, fuel duty could be lowered a bit to take the sting out of the protests, but this would also reduce the relative incentive to buy an EV.... one goes against the other. This is why the Lords (rightly) are saying politicians should start an honest conversation on how these two opposing forces will be dealt with.
You do realise that the current state of the art is to reach from 10% to 80% of charge in around 30 minutes? And that will only improve as technology develops - for instance the Toyota road map sees lithium-ion cars with 497 miles of range and 10-80% charging in 20 minutes in two years time, 621 miles range in three years time, and also in three years time a car with solid-state batteries with the same range, increasing to 746 mile-range in a subsequent model with charging times down to 10 minutes, even if they will only be produced in small quantities initially.It's interesting the derision Hydrogen attracts amongst those same people who are so sensitive regarding any criticism at all of EVs. I think it is obvious that very brief refuelling stops
It's not about subsidy - in general the subsidies have been technology agnostic, it's just that hydrogen has been too far behind to take advantage of them. One of the problems with hydrogen is that there isn't really an existing network to carry it, so you have to do a massive amount of (subsidised) spending just to give the first car a way to fill up. But as I and others keep saying, the problem with hydrogen comes down to the fact that it is so inefficient compared to electric (assuming the hydrogen is being produced by electrolysis) which in turn means it will always be a lot more expensive to run than electric unless you manage to find an economic way to use it to transport stored electricity from solar farms in the Sahara or something. Which is not necessarily easy....appeal to those who cannot easily charge at home, or like to go on long journeys - and this sector of the market will have to be catered for if the 100% conversion to EVs that politicians seem to advocate is to be achieved. As for the maturity of hydrogen, it is hardly a surprise it is so far behind Lithium EVs when one considers the level of subsidy that the latter has received.
In 5 years hydrogen technology will still be struggling to establish itself, whilst solid state batteries could be giving us 700+ miles of range and charging in 10 minutes. So why spend billion on a whole new distribution network?I wonder how far EV's will go on one charge by the time Hydrogen cars can get anywhere near 400km
I'd suggest that it's a strawman to say that they are "gunning" for 100% electric, there's no conspiracy by Big Battery to make hydrogen fail, it's just that's the way the market is going. Any more than there's been conspiracies to stop LPG cars or LPG heating escaping their niches - it's just their advantages are not so great over the dominant solutions that they can overcome inherent problems with cost or building a supply network. You only have to look at the companies who know energy and have to decide where to invest in the future of transport infrastructure - like Shell, who are closing down their car hydrogen garages in California but keeping open the ones for trucks. Is that the fault of political direction, or just cutting losses on a bad investment decision?There are pros and cons of all vehicle types, and therefore my view has always been that the 100% EV model is the wrong target, I agree with those like Toyota who advocate a mix of solutions. Recent coverage suggests they may be on to something. I think our politicians are stupid enough to keep gunning for 100% EV though.
What magic technology is this? BEVs are increasingly looking like a mature technology, or at least a good enough one. Just look at Norway where 82.4% of new cars were pure electric in 2023 (and it's around 91% including plug-in hybrids). So 82% of new car buyers in Norway are not worrying about the performance of EVs in cold weather, or charging times or whatever - putting cost to one side, the technology as it is now, is good enough for them.Finally, I think when a solution for HGVs, far, equipment etc is delivered that tech (whatever it is) could end up permeating the car market.
Given the amount of time you spend arguing from personal disbelief rather than easily discoverable fact, you might want to consider your own position on that continuum....
I suggested that road pricing will not discriminate between ICE and EVs, the fact that you are surprised by that proposition seems to be based on vastly overestimating the desire of government to "financially incentivise the takeup of EVs" when in fact they've reduced most of the overt subsidies like £5k against purchase price and now the Congestion Charge exemption - partly because they just can't afford to do otherwise. All that's left now is the company car benefit and a small contribution towards chargers in certain properties and I suspect they will go in the course of the next Parliament - the trend is clear.
Just to get things in perspective, fuel duty is expected to raise £24.3bn in 2023-4, so £867 per household or £16.63 per household per week. So even if there were no ICE cars on the road (so some time after 2050) and had to replace all fuel duty with road pricing, you're not looking at impossible amounts of money. Yes it would (rightly!) be unevenly spread, but you could imagine it might look like £5 per hour that you use the M25 in rush hour. Compare that with £8.90 to use the M6 Toll road for instance.
It's getting to the stage where a bit of fuel duty is not going to be a decisive factor in the decision to buy an EV, certainly not by the stage this stuff is actually happening which is probably in the 2029-2034 parliament. The difference with ULEZ is that it was a new thing, that required people to buy a whole new car, rather than just an extension of local Congestion Charges. People will moan, but it's not going to be politically fatal, particularly not given the likely majority of the next government.
You do realise that the current state of the art is to reach from 10% to 80% of charge in around 30 minutes? And that will only improve as technology develops - for instance the Toyota road map sees lithium-ion cars with 497 miles of range and 10-80% charging in 20 minutes in two years time, 621 miles range in three years time, and also in three years time a car with solid-state batteries with the same range, increasing to 746 mile-range in a subsequent model with charging times down to 10 minutes, even if they will only be produced in small quantities initially.
So this whole thing about refuelling time just isn't really relevant for long journeys as human factors like bladder capacity and the need for coffee get in the way. Speaking as someone who has done a 700-mile journey in the UK with just two "splash and dash" stops for fuel and garage sandwiches which I ate in the car - you really don't want to do that.
What magic technology is this? BEVs are increasingly looking like a mature technology, or at least a good enough one. Just look at Norway where 82.4% of new cars were pure electric in 2023 (and it's around 91% including plug-in hybrids). So 82% of new car buyers in Norway are not worrying about the performance of EVs in cold weather, or charging times or whatever - putting cost to one side, the technology as it is now, is good enough for them.
Not quite in the same league as some GermansWe must all do our bit for the planet...
I just unplugged a row of electric cars, that no one was using.
Yeah, mostly VATDon't be shocked. There is usually an immediate loss the second you drive or off the forecourt.
What was the original price, nearly £90k?
So let's burn Tesla cars and chargers because Tesla own Starlink, (WRONG) Tesla do not own starlink its owned by space X.
What a bunch of ******* morons.
The video starts at this point -
Ironically making Tesla/Elon Musk even more money! So not really a well though out ideaAlso these cars will be insured so most likely owners will get another one.
That all good as in it's safer and has less nasty minerals from congo etc. It's not as energy dense but improved lifespan. So it may make cars heavier to compete with li-ion. It seems that it will go in cheaper cars and if the battery lasts longer that will be good for us peons. Those that want to drive around like they are in a rocket can pay more and sit on their own big fireworkJust noticed that the world's largest EV battery maker, CATL, announced back in January that by mid 2024 they will have halved the cost of their Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries in 12 months.
A 60kWh battery pack will have dropped from $6,776.00 to $3,388.00.
https://thedriven.io/2024/01/25/wor...y-maker-set-to-cut-costs-in-half-by-mid-2024/
This stuff is getting cheaper all the time.
Which fits in with industry prediction that EVs will be half the price by end of 2024/early 2025Just noticed that the world's largest EV battery maker, CATL, announced back in January that by mid 2024 they will have halved the cost of their Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries in 12 months.
A 60kWh battery pack will have dropped from $6,776.00 to $3,388.00.
https://thedriven.io/2024/01/25/wor...y-maker-set-to-cut-costs-in-half-by-mid-2024/
This stuff is getting cheaper all the time.
Not sure halving the cost of a $7000 component on a $50,000 car will have any impact on the selling price of the car. Especially since what is likely to happen is larger and more expensive batteries will be fitted now to get more range, which is peoples main bugbear with BEV's, thus completely negating the cost savings. Its the computer processor paradox...you never actually feel an improvement in the speed of your computer with ever improving and faster processors as software out develops it and soaks up all the performance advantage so you end up with a more expensive computer and more expensive software.Which fits in with industry prediction that EVs will be half the price by end of 2024/early 2025
its not just price its charging network, if we all switched tomorrow the grid would not be able to cope. In the UK we are decades behind other countries due to under investment and zigzag policies for infrastructure. Outside of London the charging network is joke not for for purpose and more expensive than a modern diesel to run.Not sure halving the cost of a $7000 component on a $50,000 car will have any impact on the selling price of the car. Especially since what is likely to happen is larger and more expensive batteries will be fitted now to get more range, which is peoples main bugbear with BEV's, thus completely negating the cost savings. Its the computer processor paradox...you never actually feel an improvement in the speed of your computer with ever improving and faster processors as software out develops it and soaks up all the performance advantage so you end up with a more expensive computer and more expensive software.
its not just price its charging network, if we all switched tomorrow the grid would not be able to cope. In the UK we are decades behind other countries due to under investment and zigzag policies for infrastructure. Outside of London the charging network is joke not for for purpose and more expensive than a modern diesel to run.
I would switch but simply can't afford it and the public changers next to me are expensive and rarely working.
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