Electric cars.

[Hazelwood Brewery]

First Ford, now GM have teamed up with Tesla.
Its charging network is quickly becoming the industry standard. Of course, it took a decade to get here.

View attachment 86575

…and one announcement to wipe 10% off my shares in EVGO (a company offering EV charging points). Ah well, progress

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[hoppyscotty]

It also world population, but for some reason the press are not allowed to talk about that.

Especially as population growth would less than replacement level in most 1st world countries without immigration, yet capitalism demands we import more population for the continued growth of the economy.

I would much rather government's switched to a more 'permaculture' mindset of how can we co exist with nature long term

Human population is actually in decline and certainly the demographics for Europeans is at crisis point with the German ethnicity facing irreversible decline within the next 10 years and the Swedish ethnicity already there. Global population growth will top out soon precisely because of the increase in energy usage dragging people out of extreme poverty and when people come out of poverty they have fewer kids because the benefits of energy improves childhood mortality.

So dont worry your wish of declining human population will come soon but not sure how that will benefit anyone. Despite the unbelievable progress we’ve made over the last 100 years we have a lot of problems to solve and need geniuses to solve those problems and in a declining population we will produce fewer geniuses so the prospects for i continuing our rate of progress doesn’t look good for future generations.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So dont worry your wish of declining human population will come soon but not sure how that will benefit anyone.

I was talking to my 25 year old son the other day and the subject of having children came up he said straight away that he has no intention of having any i asked why and he said why would anyone want to have a child when the future of this planet is looking so bad, i guess there is no answer to that.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I was talking to my 25 year old son the other day and the subject of having children came up he said straight away that he has no intention of having any i asked why and he said why would anyone want to have a child when the future of this planet is looking so bad, i guess there is no answer to that.

And who can blame them when all they get bombarded with from the media, schools and often their parents is a constant stream of how bad things are and how evil humans are and how we’re a cancer on the planet. There is no sense of balance or proportion. Everything is an ‘Emergency’ and everyone are being forced into living under a sense of impending apocalypse (makes it easier for those on power to coerce us).

It’s no message to encourage and inspire the next generation who feel they have zero agency in their lives and nothing to live for. It’s an utter tragedy.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I usually look for the ones honestly pointing out the problems, not selling solutions, not that's there's anything inherently wrong with solutions, the lord knows we need them. Its just that there's slightly less chance that they have been compromised by commercial interests.

Upton Sinclair — 'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'

Returning to the point about electricity being used to refine oil, you have to look at the total value at what that returns, and it's not just petroleum and diesel fuel, it's LPG (butane, propane) aviation fuel, tar for road surfacing, lubricants, short chain carbon compounds for pharmaceuticals etc etc etc. List is very lengthy and worth far more than the electrical energy that goes in to it. Without oil, there is no civilization, at least not the kind you and I imagine when we use that word.

Yes, an unlimited supply of clean energy could theoretically replace some of those with synthetics, but it simply not commercially viable to do so, we've been promised nuclear energy too cheap to meter since the 1930s, but it never materialised, and it likely never will. The renewable infrastructure that we pin our hopes on to power the electrical economy will become increasingly expensive as the massive subsidies from oil and gas wind down, and our ability to replace, repair and maintain them my become increasingly fraught. Most who assume the an electrical economy can power itself hasn't run the numbers. They are, as Nate puts it 'Energy Blind'


Now the electricity that is used to refine those products provides far more value to the economy (and thus props it up) than it would moving one to five 100kg humans around (usually one though) in a 2000kg capsule. Far better to move those humans around on one to five 18kg ebikes, or on trains and buses. Or better yet, get them to self propel on foot or bike and save the energy for what we can't do ourselves. If single occupant accounts for <5% of am EVs weight, 95% of the energy is moving the car itself. This is why I think ebikes technically, EVs will be a very big thing, as the vehicle weighs less than the payload. Ultra light EVs have potential, but still make less sense in energy scarcity scenarios than ebikes.

great video.

 

[dad_of_jon]

View attachment 86087

be serious , I'm not travelling in one of those!

 

[AlBrew]

First Ford, now GM have teamed up with Tesla.
Its charging network is quickly becoming the industry standard. Of course, it took a decade to get here.

View attachment 86575

They are switching to the Tesla connector too as far as I know. Would make sense as it's been made freely open sourced, it's cheaper to produce than CCS, carries double the current (up to 1MW but I doubt it'll ever do that without active cooling), it's smaller, lighter, has no moving parts, is easier to locate in the socket and looks way better.

For comparison;

We're unlikely to see it in Europe though as we are almost fully CCS now, but at least we have a standard and we're not in the middle of a format war.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Do the charging cables lock into the car to stop idiots pulling the cable out while you are in the supermarket etc?

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Do the charging cables lock into the car to stop idiots pulling the cable out while you are in the supermarket etc?

Yes, they do

Most supermarket chargers are untethered (you need to use your own cable to connect the charger to the car)

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Thanks.

 

[Rodcx500z]

We are all doomed i tell you, all that will be left and shoplifters

 

[AlBrew]

Do the charging cables lock into the car to stop idiots pulling the cable out while you are in the supermarket etc?

I've seen a few of these videos

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I've seen a few of these videos

This is the problem with the world today there is no deterrent so oxygen stealing gits like this think its a laugh to wreck an expensive car just because they can, i hope they find them and give them a huge fine and community service.

 

[Loiner-62]

I've seen a few of these videos

Sorry, they are not kids. I'm assuming they are some kind on anti EV / anti - climate change types or just simply jealous. We can only hope that if the cable breaks the next time they try it, these 'kids' get the sort of surprise / shock that will make them think very hard about doing it again. Not sure about voltage on the charging cables but as battery packs / systems run at ~300-400V, suspect it's about the same, know that in F1 they have a 'safe to touch' system to avoid electrocuting marshals / mechanics etc

Also could they not be traced and prosecuted for criminal damage or similar (not sure how the law stands on this sort of stuff).
As they seemed to be unsuccessful, not sure how the law stands. As Sideshow Bob once said about being charged with attempted murder, 'Do you get a Nobel prize for attempted chemistry?'

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Tuesday
Electric Cars: What They Really Mean For You
BBC One, 8pm
The drive towards electric cars continues apace in the UK, but are we ready for the 2030 cut-off for the sale of new petrol vehicles? In the first of two programmes (both available today on iPlayer), Justin Rowlatt, Michelle Ackerley and Dr Tara Shine explore how realistic the switch to electric vehicles (EVs) is in that time frame. The reporters examine the practical problems of EVs – their cost and the dearth of charging points in the UK. Currently there are 44,000 of them – fine if you live in London, where more than half of them are, but a real obstacle for those who don’t. They also look at the rapidly developing EV technology trying to overcome EV drawbacks, not least the weight of their batteries (which limit their range) and sourcing the lithium, nickel and graphite essential to their production.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

and the dearth of charging points in the UK. Currently there are 44,000 of them – fine if you live in London, where more than half of them are, but a real obstacle for those who don’t.

Sad to see this being pushed again. For most people , the number of charging points is only a problem if you can't charge at home.
Most journeys are short, covered by home charging. Whenever I do long journeys and use public chargers, there always seem to be plenty (in England). Scotland does need a little more planning.

What is however a 'real problem' is the perception that there is a dearth of chargers.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

What is however a 'real problem' is the perception that there is a dearth of chargers

At a guess I would say more than half the houses in my town don't have any means of charging at home, so would rely on public charging there are about 20 of these chargers so obviously not enough should EV sales take off.
I very much doubt many of the current EV drivers here don't have off street parking and until they give us on street charging at a fair price EV ownership will never be an option for all of us.

 

[dad_of_jon]

evm man seems a sensible chap. Whilst he's a fan of EV's he does call a spade a spade.



The uptime of chargers is important. I've never experienced this problem filling up with petrol.

Interestingly I have seen ebike chargers in burry port harbour. there's no standard I know of for ebike connectors so wonder how thats going to work. I worked out I could get 7 miles of range in an hour. normally at 15mph assisted thats around 30 mins. but if battery was flat id be averaging 7mph (bike is 35kg) so that would take 1 hour. If I charged up to get home what would take 1 hour for charge then 30 mins back on assisted peddling.

Because chargers use different rates mine is a 3A - 48V charger. I can't charge faster than that. I suppose it works if you are going to stop in burry port for a while but if bike touring.... like i'll cycle to kidwelly have a 10 min lunch break and cycle straight back home it's not going to work.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the infrastructure and true understanding of peoples needs aren't always being properly thought through. working with the population rather than dictate how it will be gets better results.

 

[Nicks90]

not having off street parking isnt necessarily an issue.
Friend of mine just installed something like this this on the front of his terraced house. His doesnt free stand but is instead bolted to the front of the house and the arm just swings up on a gas ram and when he has finished charging, he pulls it down and it clicks back in to the frame and he padlocks it shut.
I think it was about £300 and he installed it himself then got a sparky to wire it in to his smart charger. And to stop anyone else using it, the charger will only work via the app on his phone.