That isn't reflected by actual used EV prices.
Electric cars.
- Thread starter Polcho
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It has been predicted prices of new EV cars will match new ICE cars within a couple of years so prices of used EV will also drop.
Why would you buy a used ev with half dead battery's, it doesn't make sense, i will stick with hydrogen as the way ahead
If you are planning on buying a very cheap, old and well used EV then you may have to settle for a car with a battery that will only get to half full when fully charged but take this 2017 Nissan Leaf (smaller 30kWh version) as a good example of real world figures on battery depletion, the bars on the right show the battery condition so as you can see in 5 years its has only dropped one bar as explained in the video.
This car is advertised at £9,250.
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Why would an Ev have half dead batteries? Well maybe an early Leaf.
Most degradation is early on and between 5-12% up to 150k miles.
"Tesla's own data show Model S and X batteries retain about 90 percent of their original capacity on average over 200,000 miles of use."
Motortrend Feb 2023
It's worth noting that the above statistics are calculated from older less reliable battery tech, and that ICE vehicles lose efficiency AND performance as they age.
You might be waiting a while for a hydrogen car and even longer for somewhere to fill it up, just checked and there are 15 filling stations in the UK, (Shell are currently closing theirs so may be less than this now).
Just take the electricity that would have been used to make, compress, store and transport hydrogen and send it down already installed wires and use it more efficiently?
H² fuel cells might be an option as a BEV range extender, if you really need the range, but will add significant cost.
It does make sense for haulage due to the energy density, especially liquified, as compressed H² is less efficient, as long as you're planning on mostly using all your liquid in one go (and not letting any just sit in the tank, as it quickly boils away). For personal transport though I don't see a need to make anything more complicated than battery > motor, unless your making, selling and maintaining car parts.
People trumpet Hydrogen because they heard Clarkson say it was the future on Top Gear once. It's a total non-starter for a long long time.
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BMW, Toyota, Audi, Vw, and all other car makers have hydro programs why, they are terrified of missing the boat
I wonder what the guys at the National Grid think about all this
.
Oh wait….
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions
. Oh wait….
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions
To keep some people thinking they can wait a bit longer for a alternative to the norm.
The wonderful world of the EV
Bernie
Landlord.
I'm not sure about the maths nor the syntax.
39 isn't 2 times 30.
The very short article is about price not depreciation and would seem to point better value for new EVs. That prices should fall quickly for EVs is not surprising; early adopted have always paid higher prices eg computers, solar panels.
I wonder what the guys at the National Grid think about all this
Oh wait….
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions
I wish that was posted more often how many times do you read "We wont have enough electricity" from the anti EV lot.
Does the electricity grid have enough capacity for charging EVs?
The most demand for electricity in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16% due to improvements in energy efficiency.Even if we all switched to EVs overnight, we believe demand would only increase by around 10%. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.
The US grid is equally capable of handling more EVs on the roads – by the time 80% of the US owns an EV, this will only translate into a 10-15% increase in electricity consumption.1
A significant amount of electricity is used to refine oil for petrol and diesel. Fully Charged’s video Volts for Oil estimates that refining 1 gallon of petrol would use around 4.5kWh of electricity – so, as we start to use less petrol or diesel cars, some of that electricity capacity could become available.
Very interesting, you can drive about 15-20miles in an EV on the 4.5kWh of leccy that it takes to refine a gallon of petrol.
My concern about a mass shift to EVs would be the volatility of energy markets going forwards due to falling energy production of oil and gas. Many assume that we will be able to continue to invest in renewable energy infrastructure, but as oil/gas production falls, we will have to dedicate more and more of our economy to keeping pace with the decline in quality of our energy (read: return on investment). The economy runs on surplus energy, after we have committed some of it to building the infrastructure to utilise it, as fossil fuels become less acessible and more expensive, the cost of building that infrastructure will shoot up.
The reality is we will likely have to cut back on energy use in order to make those investments in renewable infrastructure and the market will price most out of mass EV transportation. The energy crises of the near future will make the first winter after the Ukraine war look like child's play, and you only need to see what happened to the EV market last winter to see which way that's going. Unless you are already wealthy enough to afford an EV and a domestic solar array and battery system, you are more likely to be riding an electric bike than a car in the future. Energy efficiency will be more important than comfort and convenience. For those who are interested in this topic, Nate Hagens has a great podcast on energy prospects. The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens
The reality is we will likely have to cut back on energy use in order to make those investments in renewable infrastructure and the market will price most out of mass EV transportation. The energy crises of the near future will make the first winter after the Ukraine war look like child's play, and you only need to see what happened to the EV market last winter to see which way that's going. Unless you are already wealthy enough to afford an EV and a domestic solar array and battery system, you are more likely to be riding an electric bike than a car in the future. Energy efficiency will be more important than comfort and convenience. For those who are interested in this topic, Nate Hagens has a great podcast on energy prospects. The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens
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There isn't going to be a mass switch to EV and as it has been discussed in the earlier post its not going to be a problem.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...of-electric-vehicles-on-global-energy-systems
Tom Archer.
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There is the tale of the farmer asked for directions by a lost motorist..
"Well sir, if you want to be going there, you don't want to be starting from here"
If we accept the premise that a small increase in the tiny amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is undesirable, and that motoring should therefore avoid fossil fuels, no-one in their right mind would think fitting cars with costly half ton batteries that have an insane carbon footprint in their manufacture, and have to be charged from power stations that remain dependent on err.. fossil fuels.. was a great idea.
Building dedicated nuclear plants to electrolyse water into hydrogen which can power inexpensive ICE vehicles, heat homes, brew beer etc.. would deliver the desired result with minimal disruption to people's lives - or their pockets.
- EVs are just plain idiotic
"Well sir, if you want to be going there, you don't want to be starting from here"
If we accept the premise that a small increase in the tiny amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is undesirable, and that motoring should therefore avoid fossil fuels, no-one in their right mind would think fitting cars with costly half ton batteries that have an insane carbon footprint in their manufacture, and have to be charged from power stations that remain dependent on err.. fossil fuels.. was a great idea.
Building dedicated nuclear plants to electrolyse water into hydrogen which can power inexpensive ICE vehicles, heat homes, brew beer etc.. would deliver the desired result with minimal disruption to people's lives - or their pockets.
- EVs are just plain idiotic
