Electric cars.

[Chippy_Tea]

Maybe Mr Musk has the answer to that or this Portable electric vehicle chargers explained.

It comes in 4kWh to 8kWh sizes and can charge an electric car up to 20 miles in 30-60 minutes—depending on the vehicle’s battery spec. You can charge it using a three-pin plug.

Anyone who plans their journey so badly they need one of these for a 20 mile top up really shouldn't own an EV, they may as well have one of these in the boot.

As the guy in the video says he got this in case they had a lengthy power cut he is 47 miles from the nearest public charger -
(as he demonstrates the generator he bought really isn't up to the job)

 

[Stu's Brews]

Anyone who plans their journey so badly they need one of these for a 20 mile top up really shouldn't own an EV, they may as well have one of these in the boot.

As the guy in the video says he got this in case they had a lengthy power cut he is 47 miles from the nearest public charger -

It does seem slightly counter-intuitive for Elon to suggest carrying around a 4-8kWh power bank in the boot when his vehicles could just be designed to have a slightly larger battery capacity. It would almost certainly be more cost effective and energy efficient for the end customer.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It does seem slightly counter-intuitive for Elon to suggest carrying around a 4-8kWh power bank in the boot when his vehicles could just be designed to have a slightly larger battery capacity. It would almost certainly be more cost effective and energy efficient for the end customer.

You can put as bigger battery as you want in the car but if the nugget driving it tries to squeeze the last 20 miles from it it will still end the same way.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

(as he demonstrates the generator he bought really isn't up to the job)

A bigger generator -

 

[Stan's Brew]

https://nitter.moomoo.me/RichardWellings/status/1615659016939511808#m

 

[Clarence]

A bigger generator -

Doesn't a generator run off a petrol or diesel engine? What's the point in having an electric car?

 

[Stu's Brews]

https://nitter.moomoo.me/RichardWellings/status/1615659016939511808#m

The linked article is behind a paywall. Care to provide a summary of how the article shows 'The real plan is to severely restrict ordinary people's mobility by imposing "climate lockdowns" and 15-minute neighbourhoods.'?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Doesn't a generator run off a petrol or diesel engine? What's the point in having an electric car?

If you read the thread again you'll see the reason for the generator is for emergency use only, he lives 40+ miles from the nearest charging point so if he had a power cut overnight when charging from his mains supply he could use a generator to put enough charge into the battery to get him to the charging point.

 

[Stan's Brew]

The linked article is behind a paywall. Care to provide a summary of how the article shows 'The real plan is to severely restrict ordinary people's mobility by imposing "climate lockdowns" and 15-minute neighbourhoods.'?

The tweet is an opinion based on the telegraph article (that I have no acess to) but looks to be based on this article with the same title, google finds it and other references:

https://biz.crast.net/how-the-energy-crisis-drove-electric-cars-off-the-road/

 

[Stu's Brews]

The tweet is an opinion based on the telegraph article (that I have no acess to) but looks to be based on this article with the same title, google finds it and other references:

https://biz.crast.net/how-the-energy-crisis-drove-electric-cars-off-the-road/

So you shared something without having read the source material to know whether the opinion was actually based on any reasoned logic?

The article you have shared from Business News contains absolutely nothing to substantiate a claim that 'the real plan is to severely restrict ordinary people's mobility by imposing "climate lockdowns" and 15-minute neighbourhoods.'

 

[Stan's Brew]

So you shared something without having read the source material to know whether the opinion was actually based on any reasoned logic?

The article you have shared from Business News contains absolutely nothing to substantiate a claim that 'the real plan is to severely restrict ordinary people's mobility by imposing "climate lockdowns" and 15-minute neighbourhoods.'

I think you might have interpreted the post incorrectly, the author has put forward an opinion, that is all.

 

[Stu's Brews]

I think you might have interpreted the post incorrectly, the author has put forward an opinion, that is all.

I'm fairly sure I interpreted it correctly. You shared an opinion (albeit not your own) but with absolutely no background information to support or deny the claim.

It's not the first time you've shared completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories in this thread.

If you can show a single shred of evidence that there is a link between electric vehicles and a plot to 'restrict ordinary people's movements' or impose 'climate lockdowns' then I'll more than happily enter a debate about it.

Otherwise, without providing some context to back up the opinion, it's all just irrelevant nonsense.

 

[Stan's Brew]

So you shared something without having read the source material to know whether the opinion was actually based on any reasoned logic?

The article you have shared from Business News contains absolutely nothing to substantiate a claim that 'the real plan is to severely restrict ordinary people's mobility by imposing "climate lockdowns" and 15-minute neighbourhoods.

But to help with your interpretation, I think that the author has read the article and see's governments increasing energy prices, pricing people out of electricity for car charging and has joiined that with other policy moves related to 15 minute cities and it's intrinsic climate lockdown effect and reached a conclusion, could be right, could be wrong, who knows?

 

[Stan's Brew]

I'm fairly sure I interpreted it correctly. You shared an opinion (albeit not your own) but with absolutely no background information to support or deny the claim.

It's not the first time you've shared completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theories in this thread.

If you can show a single shred of evidence that there is a link between electric vehicles and a plot to 'restrict ordinary people's movements' or impose 'climate lockdowns' then I'll more than happily enter a debate about it.

Otherwise, without providing some context to back up the opinion, it's all just irrelevant nonsense.

I didn't ask you for a debate, but thanks for your opinion.

 

[Stu's Brews]

I didn't ask you for a debate, but thanks for your opinion.

It's an internet forum. The whole point of it is to enable discussion and debate. If you don't want people to debate things that you post on a public forum then I hate to say it but I've got news for you...

But to help with your interpretation, I think that the author has read the article and see's governments increasing energy prices, pricing people out of electricity for car charging and has joiined that with other policy moves related to 15 minute cities and it's intrinsic climate lockdown effect and reached a conclusion, could be right, could be wrong, who knows?

It's an interesting theory but I'm really not sure there's much substance to it.

Firstly, 'governments' are not increasing energy prices - that is being driven by the wholesale cost of oil and gas.

Secondly, the '15-minute city' isn't about restricting movement. It's about enabling people to move about within cities without the need for motorised vehicles: 'Everyone living in a city should have access to essential urban services within a 15 minute walk or bike.'

I'm also still not seeing the direct relevance to electric vehicles; most of the points you make are equally as applicable to petrol or diesel vehicles.

 

[Stan's Brew]

It's an interesting theory but I'm really not sure there's much substance to it.

Firstly, 'governments' are not increasing energy prices - that is being driven by the wholesale cost of oil and gas.

Secondly, the '15-minute city' isn't about restricting movement. It's about enabling people to move about within cities without the need for motorised vehicles: 'Everyone living in a city should have access to essential urban services within a 15 minute walk or bike.'

I'm also still not seeing the direct relevance to electric vehicles; the points you make are equally as applicable to petrol or diesel vehicles.

That's more like it, some engagement rather than dismissing a viewpoint as conspiracy theory.

Firstly, what was the reason for removing the energy price cap, that was government policy?

Secondly, I think this plays to the authors point and to various messages coming from the World Economic Forum, the 'Great Reset', 'Fourth Indiustrial Revolution' and other policy initiatives coming fromm the WEF certainly points to us 'owning nothing and being happy', if you take a look at the 1st prediction for the 2030 agenda from the WEF list of predictions, you can see how it can be interpreted this way in the WEF link below from 2016:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/8-predictions-for-the-world-in-2030/
The evolution of Agenda 2030 in time will tell us, but I think the tweet author has posed a couple of interesting questiions related to the investment of the energy infrastructure, why isn't there massive investment enough for mass adoption of EVs?

The article show a sudden drop off in EV uptake as a direct result of increased energy prices, something that government can easily subsidise if it was their intention to ensure mass adoption of EVs. Of course it could be that government is just lagging behind the curve, but given the amount of technology that collects and analyses data and provides results that government can act upon in very short order I find this hard to believe.

Difficult to say at this stage, but all the indicators point to a delibrate process to move us into a new world where EVs and therefore people's mobility will be restricted to only the few rich enough to afford it, 15 minute cities are a policy direction that is linked to this mobility restriction and is one of the WEFs core policies for sustainable cities.

https://nitter.moomoo.me/SikhForTruth/status/1615089046048440346#m

 

[Stu's Brews]

That's more like it, some engagement rather than dismissing a viewpoint as conspiracy theory.

I wasn't dismissing it - I was pointing out that without some background information to substantiate the claims there was no way to view it any other way. Now that you've provided that context it opens up the possibility for a meaningful debate - although you apparently didn't want one half an hour ago.

Firstly, what was the reason for removing the energy price cap, that was government policy?

The energy price cap hasn't been removed - it still very much exists. What has happened is that the price was lifted due to the massive increases in wholesale oil and gas prices; which was necessary to prevent widespread bankruptcies across the energy providers (e.g. Bulb). Also, as you'll see from the Ofgem page, the government are actually subsidizing energy prices at the moment through the Energy Price Guarantee.

Secondly, I think this plays to the authors point and to various messages coming from the World Economic Forum, the 'Great Reset', 'Fourth Indiustrial Revolution' and other policy initiatives coming fromm the WEF certainly points to us 'owning nothing and being happy', if you take a look at the 1st prediction for the 2030 agenda from the WEF list of predictions, you can see how it can be interpreted this way in the WEF link below from 2016:

I think to an extent; the idea that 'All products will become services' is not all that far from the truth although I very much doubt that it will apply to 'all' products or happen by 2030. In the case of cars, it actually makes some sense - the average car spends 95% of its time parked up going nowhere; yet it's a massive financial burden for people. So there is definitely an argument for moving to a world where instead of owning our own vehicle we hire them when we need them and use public transport or walking/cycling for the rest. The '15-minute city' is effectively linked to this idea and could work very well in that environment. For me, the jury is out as to whether it can work in more rural settings - there would need to be a massive increase in public transport and walking/cycling provisions in those areas.

The evolution of Agenda 2030 in time will tell us, but I think the tweet author has posed a couple of interesting questiions related to the investment of the energy infrastructure, why isn't there massive investment enough for mass adoption of EVs?

It's a good question - I've said previously that there needs to be a significant increase in the investment in EV charging infrastructure in the UK. It doesn't necessarily mean it's linked to a government conspiracy to get us to stop using cars though, more likely that the roll-out has simply been too slow, which is not unusual for big infrastructure projects.

The article show a sudden drop off in EV uptake as a direct result of increased energy prices, something that government can easily subsidise if it was their intention to ensure mass adoption of EVs. Of course it could be that government is just lagging behind the curve, but given the amount of technology that collects and analyses data and provides results that government can act upon in very short order I find this hard to believe.

You've lost me here as I don't know which article you are referring to. If it's the original paywalled article then I can't see the information.

Difficult to say at this stage, but all the indicators point to a delibrate process to move us into a new world where EVs and therefore people's mobility will be restricted to only the few rich enough to afford it, 15 minute cities are a policy direction that is linked to this mobility restriction and is one of the WEFs core policies for sustainable cities.

Again, why does this specifically apply to EVs? I'm not seeing how any of this wouldn't apply to petrol or diesel vehicles, with the exception of the charging infrastructure.

As highlighted previously, '15-minute cities' are not about restricting movement. If anything they are about enabling faster movement around cities by using alternatives to a car. It won't stop you using a car for travelling outside the city (or inside if that was still the more logical option).

 

[Stan's Brew]

I wasn't dismissing it - I was pointing out that without some background information to substantiate the claims there was no way to view it any other way. Now that you've provided that context it opens up the possibility for a meaningful debate - although you apparently didn't want one half an hour ago.



The energy price cap hasn't been removed - it still very much exists. What has happened is that the price was lifted due to the massive increases in wholesale oil and gas prices; which was necessary to prevent widespread bankruptcies across the energy providers (e.g. Bulb). Also, as you'll see from the Ofgem page, the government are actually subsidizing energy prices at the moment through the Energy Price Guarantee.



I think to an extent; the idea that 'All products will become services' is not all that far from the truth although I very much doubt that it will apply to 'all' products or happen by 2030. In the case of cars, it actually makes some sense - the average car spends 95% of its time parked up going nowhere; yet it's a massive financial burden for people. So there is definitely an argument for moving to a world where instead of owning our own vehicle we hire them when we need them and use public transport or walking/cycling for the rest. The '15-minute city' is effectively linked to this idea and could work very well in that environment. For me, the jury is out as to whether it can work in more rural settings - there would need to be a massive increase in public transport and walking/cycling provisions in those areas.


It's a good question - I've said previously that there needs to be a significant increase in the investment in EV charging infrastructure in the UK. It doesn't necessarily mean it's linked to a government conspiracy to get us to stop using cars though, more likely that the roll-out has simply been too slow, which is not unusual for big infrastructure projects.


You've lost me here as I don't know which article you are referring to. If it's the original paywalled article then I can't see the information.


Again, why does this specifically apply to EVs? I'm not seeing how any of this wouldn't apply to petrol or diesel vehicles, with the exception of the charging infrastructure.

As highlighted previously, '15-minute cities' are not about restricting movement. If anything they are about enabling faster movement around cities by using alternatives to a car. It won't stop you using a car for travelling outside the city (or inside if that was still the more logical option).

I'm not seeing any sources for your opinions?

 

[Stu's Brews]

I'm not seeing any sources for your opinions?

I've linked in several articles as hyperlinks; for reference:

https://www.15minutecity.com/
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/informatio...seholds/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ould-add-more-than-150-pounds-to-energy-bills
https://milta.co/2017/11/20/95-of-a-cars-lifetime-is-spent-parked-2/
https://www.racfoundation.org/media-centre/cars-parked-23-hours-a-day
https://www.mikealbert.com/future-of-fleets/transportation-as-a-service

 

[dad_of_jon]

I will never buy a new car - let the first owner take the drive-away depreciation hit. With an ICE that’s fine, usually a 3 year old ex Motability (as most seem to be at Available Car and the like) with 18k on the clock has many years of reliable service in it before anything major needs doing. What’s the state of a 3 year old EV battery going to be and potential replacement cost for say a Citroen C4?

I do buy new but keep them around 7 plus years where the depreciation evens out and being japanese they stay reliable over 10 years. replacing every 3 years on pcp works for less reliable brands but then you are paying for the biggest depreciation loss in a vehicles lifespan. I did the maths and for me 2 new cars on 3 year pcp worked out dearer than buying a new car outright and selling on after 6 years. off the top of my head my mazda cx lost £14k over 7 years so £2k per year and the pcp was around £250 a month for the first 3 years so £2.4k. Of course you have to factor the purchase cost of the car and if you need a loan to borrow that.

So to go EV doesn't make sense for me.