Electric cars.

[Stan's Brew]

The energy price cap hasn't been removed - it still very much exists. What has happened is that the price was lifted due to the massive increases in wholesale oil and gas prices; which was necessary to prevent widespread bankruptcies across the energy providers (e.g. Bulb). Also, as you'll see from the Ofgem page, the government are actually subsidizing energy prices at the moment through the Energy Price Guarantee.

I don't agree with ofgems reasoning (they are a government department and need to be questioned/held to account), here is an article that provides the view that the market is fixed and based on monopoly control, similar to other energy market cartels such as OPEC.

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/08/ofgem-is-a-scam

I think to an extent; the idea that 'All products will become services' is not all that far from the truth although I very much doubt that it will apply to 'all' products or happen by 2030. In the case of cars, it actually makes some sense - the average car spends 95% of its time parked up going nowhere; yet it's a massive financial burden for people. So there is definitely an argument for moving to a world where instead of owning our own vehicle we hire them when we need them and use public transport or walking/cycling for the rest. The '15-minute city' is effectively linked to this idea and could work very well in that environment. For me, the jury is out as to whether it can work in more rural settings - there would need to be a massive increase in public transport and walking/cycling provisions in those areas.

I think alot of people don't see vehicle ownership as a massive financial burden, if they did then cars would be bought at the lowest possible price, instead many vehicles are purchased based on status, freedom to travel, desirability, looks, colour, features. As with most things in life money provides choice and (in the Western world) people with greater wealth will often choose not to purchase the cheapest option.

What appears to be happening is that WEF doctrine is being adopted by national governments and applied without citizen input. National governments are putting forward the beneficial reasons for implementing these policies (climate change), but without citizen input it is removing the democratic debate that is needed.

It's a good question - I've said previously that there needs to be a significant increase in the investment in EV charging infrastructure in the UK. It doesn't necessarily mean it's linked to a government conspiracy to get us to stop using cars though, more likely that the roll-out has simply been too slow, which is not unusual for big infrastructue projects.

Without any form of debate/discussion over government policy then its difficult to understand the underlying reasons why the process is so slow.

You've lost me here as I don't know which article you are referring to. If it's the original paywalled article then I can't see the information.

Looks like the non-paywalled article I linked to is the same as the Telegraph are charging for, although I can't be sure.

Again, why does this specifically apply to EVs? I'm not seeing how any of this wouldn't apply to petrol or diesel vehicles, with the exception of the charging infrastructure.

I think you answered your own question - the charging infrastructure and also because once (if) EVs are fully adopted and there are no ICE vehicles left, what do you think they will focus on removing next?

As highlighted previously, '15-minute cities' are not about restricting movement. If anything they are about enabling faster movement around cities by using alternatives to a car. It won't stop you using a car for travelling outside the city (or inside if that was still the more logical option).

I would like to see the debate on this so that there is complete transparency, unfortunately this has happened fully, given the recent protests in Oxford it looks like the debate still has some way to go.

 

[dad_of_jon]

This example assumes home charging costs 34p kwh. in reality, with an EV electricity tariff it would be about a third of that. It’s 28p kwh to charge at Tesco!

Hi BB, yup

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/cost-of-charging-electric-car
The cost at 28p kwh still isn't going to overcome the extra expense of an EV for me. If I could reduce my grid dependancy to 30% I'd consider it so unless the numbers change for the better in the future I don't think so. That is with the luxury of parking on the drive outside my house.

 

[dad_of_jon]

If you read the thread again you'll see the reason for the generator is for emergency use only, he lives 40+ miles from the nearest charging point so if he had a power cut overnight when charging from his mains supply he could use a generator to put enough charge into the battery to get him to the charging point.

good to see someone with a bit or foresight. call it a range extender. ideally you'd want to be able to do that with extra plugin battery. Thats what swytch bikes suggest - "going on a longer cycle? - carry an extra battery. maybe under the boot space you can drop in a couple of extra modules for that longer trip whist now having to carry all that extra capacity. or maybe like when we drove to switzerland rent them out to cover extended charging distances off.

 

[Stu's Brews]

What appears to be happening is that WEF doctrine is being adopted by national governments and applied without citizen input. National governments are putting forward the beneficial reasons for implementing these policies (climate change), but without citizen input it is removing the democratic debate that is needed.

What you are describing is essentially how our democratic process works though. We elect a government through a democratic vote to best represent the needs of the country, and as a result they make decisions on our behalf. Now of course you could happily debate whether our current democratic process is actually the most effective but that is getting further off topic.

As the discussion has definitely moved away from electric vehicles it's probably time for me to leave it there so I can get back to making them and accelerate the inevitable downfall of humanity that will result... :tinhat:

 

[Stan's Brew]

What you are describing is essentially how our democratic process works though. We elect a government through a democratic vote to best represent the needs of the country, and as a result they make decisions on our behalf renege on manifesto promises and accede to supranational authority without telling us.

I've made a slight correction to your para ^^^^

 

[dad_of_jon]

I've tried a few homebrews tonight and still can't process the whole EV debate. It is desirable to restrict mobility of the masses as moving requires energy. EV's can help facilitate this but it's not their fault. Why would the rich stakeholders want to invest in the infrastructure required to allow us plebs to pollute their space when they are already rich enough? I try to remain outside of the mainstream as that's where their efforts will be concentrated.

wish me luck, so far so good.

p.s. i'd have used a white fingers crossed if I could find the icon as I don't have cronic liver failure yet.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Justin Dean]

I’m ev not charging sales are down. hydrogen is the answer. No generation through carbon

 

[MrJay83]

I’m ev not charging sales are down. hydrogen is the answer. No generation through carbon

I'm betting on hydrogen. For a car (recently got a ford edge to see me out 10 years ) and to heat my house. My brother just built a lovely house and you want to see the state of the air source heat pump Panasonic stuck on the side of it. It's an absolute horror of a thing. I would be raging!

 

[AlBrew]

I’m ev not charging sales are down. hydrogen is the answer. No generation through carbon

Hydrogen is not the answer in my opinion, at least at scale with currently sourced conversion energy... that is required in excess of the output energy delivered by the generated H², unless extracted as a byproduct of fossil fuels.

Some overview level science on the topic (from a scientist);
Youtube Link

 

[Brew_DD2]

Even if hydrogen is the answer, it's not the answer now.

 

[Justin Dean]

I'm betting on hydrogen. For a car (recently got a ford edge to see me out 10 years ) and to heat my house. My brother just built a lovely house and you want to see the state of the air source heat pump Panasonic stuck on the side of it. It's an absolute horror of a thing. I would be raging!

Yes ugly heat pumps are. Expensive and then the insulation cost.

 

[Justin Dean]

Hydrogen is not the answer in my opinion, at least at scale with currently sourced conversion energy... that is required in excess of the output energy delivered by the generated H², unless extracted as a byproduct of fossil fuels.

Some overview level science on the topic (from a scientist);
Youtube Link

Disagree. it is the balance as science is inconclusive. I wonder which scientist is advising Germany. It is ok you are entitled to your belief as am I

 

[MrJay83]

Yes ugly heat pumps are. Expensive and then the insulation cost.

You don't want to know what my brother spent on insulation. He didn't go for floor heating and has full height radiators all over the place

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Why i will never have a heat pump installed -

Very expensive even with grants.

Probably a lot more insulation than we already have.

Have to have the existing pipework replaced as the diameter is too small.
(This will probably mean plastic pipe and push fit fittings having had one of those come off in the past causing a flood that is a BIG no for me)
EDIT to add - Taken from the video below, as i said above plastic pipe and John Guest type fittings -

All radiators will need to be removed and new ones installed.

You need a large water tank which i guess most of us removed years ago when we got rid of the emersion heater and airing cupboards

You need a large box in the garden or on the wall that makes a fair bit of noise when the fan is running.

They don't work well under 0c

 

[MrJay83]

You need a large box in the garden or on the wall that makes a fair bit of noise when the fan is running.

I'll reply here with a pic of my brother's pump next time I'm there. It's about the size of one of those large and wide green electrical feeder pillars. The plumber bolted it to the side of the wall where the tank is for efficiency (fair enough) but if that is the future I want no part of it.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It seems their motto is "Ditching gas for good" i don think the majority are going to agree once they have done that and realise how useless these things are.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I'd consider getting a heat pump. Octopus in particular have a great offering.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If anyone here is thinking of getting one installed watch this first -

3 times more to to run the new system and a colder house for the extra you are putting in!

As the guy says - I would love to take out my gas boiler and if these things worked i would have done it years ago.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I'd consider getting a heat pump. Octopus in particular have a great offering.

Having watched a few videos i can honestly say i wouldn't touch one with a bargepole, all that upheaval to spend more money for less heat, as the guy says its ok then giving figures of 3 - 1 in summer who wants central heating in the summer months.