Electric cars.

[Justin Dean]

Where do people think electric comes from? Greenwashing. Lol

 

[Brew_DD2]

Where do people think electric comes from? Greenwashing. Lol

Mine all comes from renewable sources.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Where do people think electric comes from? Greenwashing. Lol

Never heard of solar, wind or hydro power then?

Yes, a lot of it still comes from fossil fuels or nuclear power but there is at least an option to use a green source.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

95% of the milage I’ve done in my EV has come from home charging and I’m on a renewables only tariff.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Where do people think electric comes from? Greenwashing. Lol

The same place the electricity comes to run your home did you watch the video it cost less than half the price of the same journey in an internal combustion engine and no emissions.

Before you launch into the haters standard response "The grid wont be able to handle it if we all go electric" here is post #4 from the thread -

ELECTRIC VEHICLE GRID IMPACT​

Fact: If 80% of all passenger cars become electric, this would lead to a total increase of 10-15% in electricity consumption.

So far, the market entry of EVs has been very predictable and the electric grid is constantly being developed in parallel. Current EV market trends show low to moderate energy uptake rates.

The projected growth in e-mobility will not drive an immediate or substantial increase in total electrical-grid power demand, according to a study by McKinsey & Company. This means EV’s aren’t likely to cause any abrupt surprises or disruptions in our power supply and there is no need for new electricity-generation capacity in the near future.

If we take Germany as an example, EV growth won’t cause any large increases in power demand through 2030. On the contrary, EVs could add 1% to the total and require about five extra gigawatts (GW) of generation capacity. That amount could grow to roughly 4% by 2050, which would only require an additional capacity of about 20 GW. Moreover, this new-build capacity will likely involve renewables, including wind and solar power, with some gas-powered generation.

At the same time, electric vehicles are 5 to 6 times more energy-efficient than the best internal combustion engines (ICE) vehicle. In passenger cars, EVs consume 25% the amount of energy in comparison to ICE vehicles. E-trucks consume about 50% of their diesel equivalents’ own energy consumption.

This means that when a majority of the vehicles on our streets are electric, the total amount of energy consumed in transport is significantly less than what it is now. And electric vehicles only continue to get more efficient and green.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I do not have off street parking so no full EV option for me so i will be buying a Toyota next they have been making Hybrids for so long they have it totally nailed -

No starter motor, no alternator and no gears the thing just works.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

The same place the electricity comes to run your home did you watch the video it cost less than half the price of the same journey in an internal combustion engine and no emissions.

My EV has a quoted range of 360 miles on a 100% charge. I’m on a EV electricity tariff at home which means anything that goes through the car charger costs me 5p kwh. So, a full charge (full tank of fuel) costs me £3.75. 360 miles for £3.75 is a lot better than any ICE car.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

My EV has a quoted range of 360 miles on a 100% charge. I’m on a EV electricity tariff at home which means anything that goes through the car charger costs me 5p kwh. So, a full charge (full tank of fuel) costs me £3.75. 360 miles for £3.75 is a lot better than any ICE car.

A full tank of fuel for my small car is around £50 - £60 depending where i fill up and i would be lucky to get 360 miles from it.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Just what you need after a hard day at work, not

 

[Stu's Brews]

Just what you need after a hard day at work, not

Fortunately a rare occurrence and unfortunately not something that internal combustion vehicles are immune to.

 

[Leon103]

Just what you need after a hard day at work, not

My father had a diesel bmw that burst into flames whilst he was driving it.

 

[Justin Dean]

The same place the electricity comes to run your home did you watch the video it cost less than half the price of the same journey in an internal combustion engine and no emissions.

Before you launch into the haters standard response "The grid wont be able to handle it if we all go electric" here is post #4 from the thread -

ELECTRIC VEHICLE GRID IMPACT​

Fact: If 80% of all passenger cars become electric, this would lead to a total increase of 10-15% in electricity consumption.

So far, the market entry of EVs has been very predictable and the electric grid is constantly being developed in parallel. Current EV market trends show low to moderate energy uptake rates.

The projected growth in e-mobility will not drive an immediate or substantial increase in total electrical-grid power demand, according to a study by McKinsey & Company. This means EV’s aren’t likely to cause any abrupt surprises or disruptions in our power supply and there is no need for new electricity-generation capacity in the near future.

If we take Germany as an example, EV growth won’t cause any large increases in power demand through 2030. On the contrary, EVs could add 1% to the total and require about five extra gigawatts (GW) of generation capacity. That amount could grow to roughly 4% by 2050, which would only require an additional capacity of about 20 GW. Moreover, this new-build capacity will likely involve renewables, including wind and solar power, with some gas-powered generation.

At the same time, electric vehicles are 5 to 6 times more energy-efficient than the best internal combustion engines (ICE) vehicle. In passenger cars, EVs consume 25% the amount of energy in comparison to ICE vehicles. E-trucks consume about 50% of their diesel equivalents’ own energy consumption.

This means that when a majority of the vehicles on our streets are electric, the total amount of energy consumed in transport is significantly less than what it is now. And electric vehicles only continue to get more efficient and green.

Thanks mate. I understand all this but that is not what I am asking. Homes and anything else that use electric are not green. What is needed is green generation. To say anythingthat uses electric is green is greenwashing until the supply of fuel is green.

 

[Stu's Brews]

Thanks mate. I understand all this but that is not what I am asking. Homes and anything else that use electric are not green. What is needed is green generation. To say anythingthat uses electric is green is greenwashing until the supply of fuel is green.

That entirely depends on your definition of 'green'.

As @Chippy_Tea highlighted electric vehicles use considerably less energy than petrol or diesel equivalents. I'd say that is a pretty positive step, particularly when you consider that electricity can be generated from renewable sources.

Overall that seems far more 'green' than driving round in a vehicle that burns fossil fuels.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Ev's are from green and never will be, hydrogen is the way forward

 

[Stu's Brews]

Ev's are from green and never will be

That's quite a strong claim, got any scientific evidence to back it up?

They certainly aren't perfect but they are definitely better than the current alternative. The only thing that is better right now is to reduce car usage itself.

They are also becoming increasingly efficient in their day-to-day usage as well reducing their environmental impact from their production and disposal.

Hydrogen will almost certainly form part of the future transportation ecosystem. However, I'm reasonably confident that electric vehicles will continue to have a role to play and for as long as they do efforts will continue to make them 'greener'.

 

[Stu's Brews]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lif...are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html

 

[Brew_DD2]

Thanks mate. I understand all this but that is not what I am asking. Homes and anything else that use electric are not green. What is needed is green generation. To say anythingthat uses electric is green is greenwashing until the supply of fuel is green.

You're accusing others of greenwashing and saying that electric is green, and in the same breath say that "homes and everything else that use electric are not green", despite a few of us giving you real world examples to the contrary. All of my electricity generation is green. There are a few suppliers that offer this. And some of us generate our own.

The confirmation bias is strong with this one.

 

[Rodcx500z]

That's quite a strong claim, got any scientific evidence to back it up?

They certainly aren't perfect but they are definitely better than the current alternative. The only thing that is better right now is to reduce car usage itself.

They are also becoming increasingly efficient in their day-to-day usage as well reducing their environmental impact from their production and disposal.

Hydrogen will almost certainly form part of the future transportation ecosystem. However, I'm reasonably confident that electric vehicles will continue to have a role to play and for as long as they do efforts will continue to make them 'greener'.

Ev's are just part of the agenda to meet the green targets for 2030, in the mean time children are being exploited working in lithium mines, Exposed: Child labour behind smart phone and electric car batteries need any more evidence ev's are not green, i for one could not live with myself knowing children were used to provide my transport, South America's 'lithium fields' reveal the dark side of electric cars, if you need more evidence just ask

 

[Stu's Brews]

Ev's are just part of the agenda to meet the green targets for 2030, in the mean time children are being exploited working in lithium mines, Exposed: Child labour behind smart phone and electric car batteries need any more evidence ev's are not green, i for one could not live with myself knowing children were used to provide my transport, South America's 'lithium fields' reveal the dark side of electric cars, if you need more evidence just ask

Not going to argue that any form of child or forced labour is anything other than completely unacceptable. However, that's a very different definition of 'green' than what was being discussed around the environmental impact. That's why it is such a frustrating turn of phrase as it is woefully vague and can be far too easily thrown into the debate by either side without real meaning.

On the specifics of where materials are sourced; it is a known problem within the industry, although sadly not limited to battery materials nor (as you highlight) the automotive industry. Any reputable manufacturer will have a corporate responsibility and materials compliance program to ensure all materials are from legal and ethical sources. It is something that we take very seriously at my company as it is absolutely not something we can ever condone. As of 2021, new EU regulations were introduced specifically to target this problem.

Regarding your second link about lithium-ion battery production, again it is a known problem in the industry and there are huge efforts in place to improve the situation. As this article highlights, the overall environmental impact of an electric vehicle (even accounting for the battery production) is still less than a petrol or diesel equivalent. Additionally, lithium-ion batteries may be replaced altogether in the not too distant future as better battery technologies become available, another area we are actively exploring.

Unfortunately a lot of the negative press around electric vehicles is fuelled by a resistance to change (both socially and economically). Peel back the layers and you often find the arguments against electric vehicles aren't particularly strong when considering the bigger picture. That's of course not to say that those in favour of electric vehicles don't play the same game. Any article worth reading should consider both electric and petrol/diesel vehicles rather than selectively bashing/lauding one or the other.