cultivating cider yeast

[adensf]

hi all,
i intend to produce a cider from home cultivated cider yeast from the sediment in shop bought ciders, i was wondering if anybody could advise if there are there any particularly good ciders to use and how much sediment will i need to create 1 dj of cider ?

 

[graysalchemy]

Westons old rosie works a treat (morrisons have it). Basically you need to settle the cider chilling helps to get as much of the yeast at the bottom. Next you need an old milk bottle or flask sterilised. Pour yourself the cider catrefully leaving the bottom half inch hopefully with all the yeast. Now tip the yeast into the milk bottle and add about 350mm of apple juice. Cover over with a sterilized piece of tin foil. Give it a good shake and leave it some where warm 19-21c. You need to agitate it when ever you can to keep the yeast in suspension. Once it stops fermenting 2-3 days you can repeat letting it settle removing the aplle/juice cider and putting it in more apple juice. Once you have don ethis you should have enough to pitch into a gallon of apple juice. Once this has fermented you will have enough for 5 gallons. :thumb:

 

[adensf]

awesome i actually have two bottles of old rosie in at the moment , i intend to make a honey and apple cider using this method , is there a limit to the percentage alcohol the yeast will produce and is adding yeast nutrient a good idea ?

 

[graysalchemy]

Yes yeast nutrient is a good idea for cider :thumb:

 

[Jonny69]

I've used the all-natural yeasts off a couple of my ciders to make turbo ciders. It successfully brewed, but it didn't make the rough scrumpy taste I was expecting the yeast to do to it. It seems to be the rotten pulpy residue from the apples that makes this taste and shop-bought apple juice does not have it. I keep meaning to experiment letting some apples rot and stick them in the brew to see what happens.

 

[Crastney]

hurrah! I'm going to beat Graysalchemy to it by saying 'add malic acid, and tannin!'

don't know who you've been talking to, or which books you've read but adding rotten pulpy apples will make it pulpy and taste rotten, and is a definite 'NO! NO!'

 

[tzirtizi]

I hope the OP doesn't mind my butting in with a related question?

I followed pretty a similar recipe graysalchemy describes above - I put the sediment from a bottle of Old Rosie into the bottom of a steralised demijohn with a slug of apple juice and have left it for four days now. Seeing no activity on day two, I added a bit more apple juice, some raisins and a little bit of sugar in order to encourage it. But to no avail - there has still been no visible activity at all. So should I give this up as a failed experiment and dead yeast, or hold on a while longer?

 

[Jonny69]

hurrah! I'm going to beat Graysalchemy to it by saying 'add malic acid, and tannin!'

don't know who you've been talking to, or which books you've read but adding rotten pulpy apples will make it pulpy and taste rotten, and is a definite 'NO! NO!'

The only reason I've come to that conclusion is the best rough scrumpies I've made have been from the scabbiest mankiest looking apples and I haven't managed to get that deep cidery taste from good apples

Only problem is supermarket apples don't seem to go brown and mushy like the ones off the local trees, so maybe they will just go rotten rather than cider themselves on their own yeasts?

 

[graysalchemy]

The farmyard taste you are probably refering to due to lactobacillus part of the Malolactic Fermentation. For this to be successfull you need malic acid which is lacking in carton juice. You need to add 1 tsp per gallon. You also need to bulk mature for 2-3 months.
:thumb:

 

[graysalchemy]

I followed pretty a similar recipe graysalchemy describes above - I put the sediment from a bottle of Old Rosie into the bottom of a steralised demijohn with a slug of apple juice and have left it for four days now. Seeing no activity on day two, I added a bit more apple juice, some raisins and a little bit of sugar in order to encourage it. But to no avail - there has still been no visible activity at all. So should I give this up as a failed experiment and dead yeast, or hold on a while longer?

I also started one 2 days ago, and not much activity I have put it in the fermentation cupboard at 21c and it has started to pick up so hopefully by monday it will be ready to make larger. I will drain of the cider once the yeast has settled and add another 400ml and do the same again, then I will put it in 2-3l of apple juice, this will be enough for 6 gallons. However I am going to split them and try freezing it :hmm: :hmm:

 

[alanywiseman.]

I hope the OP doesn't mind my butting in with a related question?

I followed pretty a similar recipe graysalchemy describes above - I put the sediment from a bottle of Old Rosie into the bottom of a steralised demijohn with a slug of apple juice and have left it for four days now. Seeing no activity on day two, I added a bit more apple juice, some raisins and a little bit of sugar in order to encourage it. But to no avail - there has still been no visible activity at all. So should I give this up as a failed experiment and dead yeast, or hold on a while longer?

I made a starter recently for my first TC and it took a while to see any activity. Have a look HERE

 

[Ken L]

I see a lot of talk about malolactic conversion/fermentation which begs the question....Where are you guys sourcing your bacterial cultures to make this happen ?

 

[Jonny69]

The farmyard taste you are probably refering to due to lactobacillus part of the Malolactic Fermentation. For this to be successfull you need malic acid which is lacking in carton juice. You need to add 1 tsp per gallon. You also need to bulk mature for 2-3 months.
:thumb:

Awesome, cheers for that tip :

 

[graysalchemy]

I see a lot of talk about malolactic conversion/fermentation which begs the question....Where are you guys sourcing your bacterial cultures to make this happen ?

It happens naturaly. You need to mature in bulk for about 3 months. :thumb:

 

[asd]

Hi,

If you are making cider from juice bought from the shop in cartons, all of which has been pasteurised, I don't see how the malolactic conversion can take place.

I've made a couple of turbos, and found them quite rough and acidic (but drinkable)- I think due to malic acid.

I have bought some bacteria to do the malolactic conversion. It is Vinoferm Malocid. I plan to make two turbo ciders - and at the end of their yeast fermentation, pitch some of these lacto bacteria in one, and not the other, and then compare.

If anyone else has done this already, what are your results?

Simon.

 

[tzirtizi]

I made a starter recently for my first TC and it took a while to see any activity. Have a look HERE

Thanks for the link! :)

 

[graysalchemy]

Hi,

If you are making cider from juice bought from the shop in cartons, all of which has been pasteurised, I don't see how the malolactic conversion can take place.

The bacteria involved will infect the cider naturally during maturation as they are airbourne. It is dependent on pH though to low a pH will inhibit the process. Mine happened about a month after fermentation completed and by all accounts quite a few of us who have done it have been sucessful. Mine was maturing for 10 months and still had a healthy population of bacteria growing on it.

Since I left it on the yeast the yeast which i collected and used again will now be infected with the bacteria.

:thumb: :thumb:

 

[Ken L]

Sounds like a good reason to go down the Westons cultivation route.

 

[Crastney]

hurrah! I'm going to beat Graysalchemy to it by saying 'add malic acid, and tannin!'

don't know who you've been talking to, or which books you've read but adding rotten pulpy apples will make it pulpy and taste rotten, and is a definite 'NO! NO!'

The only reason I've come to that conclusion is the best rough scrumpies I've made have been from the scabbiest mankiest looking apples and I haven't managed to get that deep cidery taste from good apples

Only problem is supermarket apples don't seem to go brown and mushy like the ones off the local trees, so maybe they will just go rotten rather than cider themselves on their own yeasts?

scabby and manky apples may be ok, but not bruised, and not going rotten. Supermarket apples are graded, and only those that are exactly the right shape and size are sold as fruit, all others are squished as juice. any rotten bruised bits will contain bad bacteria, or yeast cultures that you don't want in your cider. 'Proper' west country cider, can be made from wind fall apples, and specifically apple varieties bred for the flavours needed to make cider, they're not eaters, or cookers. Hence why if you use 'apple juice' from cartons, you need to add malic acid, and leave it to mature.