Klarstein Mundschenk stuck mash problems

[Bristol]

Hi all, I have a klarstein mundschenk 30l all in one system that I'm having trouble with the mash compacting so badly the wort is almost cold by the time I've sparged.

I'm wondering if anyone has any technique tips to stop this. I've tried not putting the top plate on but all that happened then was it compacted anyway and when I wasn't looking grain started going through the overflow. I've tried stiring the mash occasionally but that also seems to allow too much through the mesh into the wort. I've tried slowing the pump but eventually it's pretty obvious there's almost no flow through the grain and it just ends up overflowing again or worse running the bottom dry.

I'm aware of using rice hulls which I will order for my next batch but I'm not sure how much of them to use.

So any general tips on mashing in etc are welcome

 

[fluketamer]

this thread has some good tips:

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/klarstein-mundschenk.101138/page-14#post-1259991

a few things:

1 too fine a grind can be an issue.
2 rice husks help but are not needed.
3 lose the top plate. and get a longer return tube
4 i under let by putting grain in basket first then lowering it into the kettle.
5) shake the tun to get the finer flour to the bottom then put it baack in top before underletting.
6) stir a few times for the first 20 or 30 mins.
7) i added a sight tube to the ball valve in order to see the level of wort underneath the tun so i can slow the pump as needed to keep a decent amount of wort on the burner


dont worry about getting bits into the overflow the pump will bring them back up over the grain bed .

these systems make great wort
good luck

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Crush of grain bill is major factor.
Too fine is a swine!

Makeup of grain bill as well, flaked oats, barley, wheat all will slow your sparge.

How does the mash recirculate? You mention difficult sparge but the mash?

Lifting the maltpipe rapidly can exacerbate grain bed compaction.
Do a mashout.

Probably no access to glucanase but I use this takes up no volume in the kettle.

You could consider a B glucan rest in your mash profile.

Sub malted oats for flaked oats.

 

[Appleton Brews]

I have one and you need to do the following
1. 3/1 mash water to grain weight plus 7 litres below the bottom plate, so for 5kg of grain 15+7 litres =22 litres.
2. No top plate and leave plastic end cap on return pipe.
3. Reduce the recirculating flow with the valve as the pump is sucking the water and compressing the grain bet.
4. Stir the mash every 10-15 minutes throughout the mash.

If you run the pump at full whack and let the wort return down the return pipe it compresses the grain bed.
Grain crush is irrelevant, rice hulls are not needed unless you have a lot of rye malt or adjuncts. Flow rate is the key and stirring are the key.

 

[foxy]

Hi all, I have a klarstein mundschenk 30l all in one system that I'm having trouble with the mash compacting so badly the wort is almost cold by the time I've sparged.

I'm wondering if anyone has any technique tips to stop this. I've tried not putting the top plate on but all that happened then was it compacted anyway and when I wasn't looking grain started going through the overflow. I've tried stiring the mash occasionally but that also seems to allow too much through the mesh into the wort. I've tried slowing the pump but eventually it's pretty obvious there's almost no flow through the grain and it just ends up overflowing again or worse running the bottom dry.

I'm aware of using rice hulls which I will order for my next batch but I'm not sure how much of them to use.

So any general tips on mashing in etc are welcome

A more fluid mash is the answer, and you will also get better efficiency. Not sure what the volume is on yours when you say 30 litre, I bought mine as a 40 litre. For 6 kg of grain I use 34 litres of liquor and delete the sparge.

 

[Appleton Brews]

Brew today
No top plate, end cap on return pipe and reduced flow from pump.

 

[Appleton Brews]

Now on the boil. 30 litres for mash and sparge 27 litre in the boil. Usually loose 4 litres so ok.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@foxy

Which efficiency?

 

[Bristol]

this thread has some good tips:

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/klarstein-mundschenk.101138/page-14#post-1259991

a few things:

1 too fine a grind can be an issue.
2 rice husks help but are not needed.
3 lose the top plate. and get a longer return tube
4 i under let by putting grain in basket first then lowering it into the kettle.
5) shake the tun to get the finer flour to the bottom then put it baack in top before underletting.
6) stir a few times for the first 20 or 30 mins.
7) i added a sight tube to the ball valve in order to see the level of wort underneath the tun so i can slow the pump as needed to keep a decent amount of wort on the burner


dont worry about getting bits into the overflow the pump will bring them back up over the grain bed .

these systems make great wort
good luck

Thanks for the link, some good ideas indeed. I think I'll try the under letting for my next batch, I might even try heating the water in the sparge heater and filling the klarstein through the tap so it fills from the bottom with the basket in place.

For 5 are you effectively using the grain basket as a sieve? Into a bucket or something then putting the fine back on top?

 

[Bristol]

I have one and you need to do the following
1. 3/1 mash water to grain weight plus 7 litres below the bottom plate, so for 5kg of grain 15+7 litres =22 litres.
2. No top plate and leave plastic end cap on return pipe.
3. Reduce the recirculating flow with the valve as the pump is sucking the water and compressing the grain bet.
4. Stir the mash every 10-15 minutes throughout the mash.

If you run the pump at full whack and let the wort return down the return pipe it compresses the grain bed.
Grain crush is irrelevant, rice hulls are not needed unless you have a lot of rye malt or adjuncts. Flow rate is the key and stirring are the key.

Thanks, the batch I did on Saturday I used 2.5l/kg which is possibly a bit thick. I'll use more water next time.

 

[Bristol]

Now on the boil. 30 litres for mash and sparge 27 litre in the boil. Usually loose 4 litres so ok.

So have you just filled to 30l, heated to strike temp then mashed in? Then lift and drain the grain and boil? No sparge at all? That would make my day much easier as I only have one socket in the garage and have to run an extention from the house for the sparge heater etc.

 

[Caramel Ox]

Using the same kettle my recommended method is to delete overflow by attaching white cap to bottom bolt, put full volume in at start, pour malt in when at temperature, stir, leave for 15 min, stir, recirculate at about 50% valve position for 45 minutes.

It’s simple and reliable.

 

[Bristol]

Using the same kettle my recommended method is to delete overflow by attaching white cap to bottom bolt, put full volume in at start, pour malt in when at temperature, stir, leave for 15 min, stir, recirculate at about 50% valve position for 45 minutes.

It’s simple and reliable.

Thanks, by full volume you mean 30 litres? To account for a few liters grain absorption and some boil off, no sparge etc. Seems consistent advice here, I'll defo try this next time I think.

 

[Caramel Ox]

Thanks, by full volume you mean 30 litres? To account for a few liters grain absorption and some boil off, no sparge etc. Seems consistent advice here, I'll defo try this next time I think.

It’s calculated by Brewfather based on my profile, but for 21l to fermenter I would start with 27l so yes about 30 for 23l.

 

[foxy]

@foxy

Which efficiency?

Mash.

 

[foxy]

Thanks, by full volume you mean 30 litres? To account for a few liters grain absorption and some boil off, no sparge etc. Seems consistent advice here, I'll defo try this next time I think.

I am interested to know the height and width of your vessel. What is the 30 litres referring to?
This is mine with 33.5 litres and 5.6 kg of grain, get rid of the overflow, it isn't needed. stir until the viscosity changes you will feel it and it doesnt take long, 10 to 15 minutes keep the ball valve open to keep the top and bottom temperatures even.

 

[Bristol]

I am interested to know the height and width of your vessel. What is the 30 litres referring to?
This is mine with 33.5 litres and 5.6 kg of grain, get rid of the overflow, it isn't needed. stir until the viscosity changes you will feel it and it doesnt take long, 10 to 15 minutes keep the ball valve open to keep the top and bottom temperatures even.
View attachment 108997
View attachment 108998

Morning, thanks for the reply, it's this unit. I just sent out to the garage, the 30l line is about 10cm from the brim at a guess I might be able to squeeze 40l in but boiling would be no fun at that. But 30l with the grain should be fine to give a pre boil vol of 27ish. Thsnkg again, I'm actually looking forward to my next brew with it now

https://www.klarstein.co.uk/Home-Ap...gZxaVQ1mQz18x-M-8hxCrqFUdKFOV97saAuhxEALw_wcB

 

[malhal]

Hi all, I have a klarstein mundschenk 30l all in one system that I'm having trouble with the mash compacting so badly the wort is almost cold by the time I've sparged.

I'm wondering if anyone has any technique tips to stop this. I've tried not putting the top plate on but all that happened then was it compacted anyway and when I wasn't looking grain started going through the overflow. I've tried stiring the mash occasionally but that also seems to allow too much through the mesh into the wort. I've tried slowing the pump but eventually it's pretty obvious there's almost no flow through the grain and it just ends up overflowing again or worse running the bottom dry.

I'm aware of using rice hulls which I will order for my next batch but I'm not sure how much of them to use.

So any general tips on mashing in etc are welcome

After final stir do mashout at 75C and recirc for 10minutes before lifting grains. Wort is more fluid when hotter.
Use hot sparge water at 75C (must acidify pH below 6 to prevent grain tannins).
Do not allow wort temp below to drop below 75C, in auto mode that wouldn't be a problem because it would have started raising temp to boil.

 

[foxy]

Morning, thanks for the reply, it's this unit. I just sent out to the garage, the 30l line is about 10cm from the brim at a guess I might be able to squeeze 40l in but boiling would be no fun at that. But 30l with the grain should be fine to give a pre boil vol of 27ish. Thsnkg again, I'm actually looking forward to my next brew with it now

https://www.klarstein.co.uk/Home-Appliances/Home-Brewing-Equipment/Mundschenk-Immersion-Cooler-Beer-Brewing-System-2500W-30l-304-Stainless-Steel.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=01_PLA_UK_KS_Standard_Small Appliances & Kitchen_Kitchen Appliances_Beer homebrew_New Launch&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_NC9BhCkARIsABSnSTb095EvtAYvJ3I9v8qlq_TgZxaVQ1mQz18x-M-8hxCrqFUdKFOV97saAuhxEALw_wcB

OK, it's starting to make sense now. The 30 litre mark on your unit isn't 30 litres; that 30 litre mark doesn't include the dead space, so it's closer to 34 litres of liquor. What you have to do is make a measuring stick to gauge the liquor you have in the kettle, pay no heed to the markings. There are a few ways to make some sort of measuring device this is mine.
On mine 30 litres is approximately 300 ml from the bottom of the kettle and I am pretty sure yours is the same.

To get a bit more volume ditch the handle you got and use some 8mm / 5/16" All thread, this will lift the grain basket another 25mm, see my previous pic. This is handy when making a bigger beer a good strong stout.
Because you aren't sparging you have to get as much wort from the grain after mash out squeeze the grain as much as you can this will give you a lautering efficiency without actually lautering.

Get yourself one of these to keep a check on the temperature at the top good value for the money. The foam keeps the mashing wort insulated no need for the lid going on.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...0-4434-94f5-d6e68ae2f4b4-6&pdp_ext_f={"order"

 

[Bristol]

OK, it's starting to make sense now. The 30 litre mark on your unit isn't 30 litres; that 30 litre mark doesn't include the dead space, so it's closer to 34 litres of liquor. What you have to do is make a measuring stick to gauge the liquor you have in the kettle, pay no heed to the markings. There are a few ways to make some sort of measuring device this is mine.
On mine 30 litres is approximately 300 ml from the bottom of the kettle and I am pretty sure yours is the same.
View attachment 109011
To get a bit more volume ditch the handle you got and use some 8mm / 5/16" All thread, this will lift the grain basket another 25mm, see my previous pic. This is handy when making a bigger beer a good strong stout.
Because you aren't sparging you have to get as much wort from the grain after mash out squeeze the grain as much as you can this will give you a lautering efficiency without actually lautering.
View attachment 109012
Get yourself one of these to keep a check on the temperature at the top good value for the money. The foam keeps the mashing wort insulated no need for the lid going on.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002747013848.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.13.6cbb4c59hudZki&algo_pvid=2cd67f6d-51f0-4434-94f5-d6e68ae2f4b4&algo_exp_id=2cd67f6d-51f0-4434-94f5-d6e68ae2f4b4-6&pdp_ext_f={"order"

Hi, I just measured, the 30l line is 3x the height of the 10l line which doesn't include the 7l dead space in this unit. I'll have a look into some way of squeezing the grain, shouldn't be too hard. Any reason you do it over a bucket and not the unit?

I also have the inkbird thermometer for reading top of mash temp.

Cheers again