Covid Passports

[trummy]

I read an article this morning which I found interesting. Without going into too much detail deaths per say are apparently pretty good this winter.
The reasons given Covid killed the most vulnerable during the earlier waves that would have succumbed as a matter of course this winter. No flu so no deaths there, (or indeed a reduction of winter infections generally.) Lower road deaths as the roads have been much quieter, and finally deaths due to cancer do not appear to have risen much despite difficulty in getting diagnosed/ treated.

One final point, the question was raised if a staff member refused to have the jab should they be sacked? My answer would be definitely, I was expected to wear a silly tie at work, otherwise I would have been in hot water, nothing compared to being a risk to others

 

[Rodcx500z]

you won't need a passport if this gets here Covid nightmare: Vaccine panic as NEW Brazil variant 'alters itself to defeat antibodies' (msn.com)

 

[johnny108]

Remember the AIDS passport? The polio one? Or the TB passport? Ebola?
Me, neither.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Remember the AIDS passport? The polio one? Or the TB passport? Ebola?
Me, neither.

Well there's no vaccine for HIV, so of course there's no certificate for it. And the Ebola one is so new that it's still being rolled out in the countries that really need it. But I can show you my yellow fever vaccination "passport" if you like.

You need proof of TB vaccination if you're coming to the UK from certain countries : Tuberculosis tests for visa applicants

And you need proof of polio vaccination for countries like Malaysia and Pakistan which still have it. In case your memory fails you, it looks like this :
https://www.who.int/ihr/IVC200_06_26.pdf?ua=1

 

[Brewnaldo]

you won't need a passport if this gets here Covid nightmare: Vaccine panic as NEW Brazil variant 'alters itself to defeat antibodies' (msn.com)

This is fear porn, an avoidable problem of our own creation throughout this pandemic, and is the only reason passport's are being discussed. They don't add a shred of additional safety over and above the vaccine itself. Not a shred, yet are being railroaded through to convince people its safe to live again.

Pummelling folk with irrational fear and doom for a year will do that I suppose. Just handy that you can also gather an enormous amount of data and sell it to your friends in the process eh

 

[dad_of_jon]

This is fear porn, an avoidable problem of our own creation throughout this pandemic, and is the only reason passport's are being discussed. They don't add a shred of additional safety over and above the vaccine itself. Not a shred, yet are being railroaded through to convince people its safe to live again.

Pummelling folk with irrational fear and doom for a year will do that I suppose. Just handy that you can also gather an enormous amount of data and sell it to your friends in the process eh

With regards to the last line of your brewnaldo, always follow the money.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I am giving up on this thread, i am going having a few beers and enjoying my life and staying safe if that means never going in a pub again or eatery so be it

 

[johnny108]

Well there's no vaccine for HIV, so of course there's no certificate for it. And the Ebola one is so new that it's still being rolled out in the countries that really need it. But I can show you my yellow fever vaccination "passport" if you like.

You need proof of TB vaccination if you're coming to the UK from certain countries : Tuberculosis tests for visa applicants

And you need proof of polio vaccination for countries like Malaysia and Pakistan which still have it. In case your memory fails you, it looks like this :
https://www.who.int/ihr/IVC200_06_26.pdf?ua=1

More and more we let ourselves be hostages to bureaucrats....

 

[MmmBeer]

If you wish to go into a supermarket or other shop, you must wear a mask, or provide medical proof of why you cannot.

If you wish to go in a pub, sporting event etc., you must have had the vaccination(s), only unlike a mask, it is not visible, so a proof of vaccination will be needed. Again if anyone cannot be vaccinated on medical grounds, then an alternative such as a recent negative test result would be needed.

Its not a punishment for those that have not been vaccinated, but a reward for those that have.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

This is fear porn, an avoidable problem of our own creation throughout this pandemic, and is the only reason passport's are being discussed. They don't add a shred of additional safety over and above the vaccine itself. Not a shred, yet are being railroaded through to convince people its safe to live again.

Pummelling folk with irrational fear and doom for a year will do that I suppose. Just handy that you can also gather an enormous amount of data and sell it to your friends in the process eh

Have you had a vaccine injection and will you go into crowded pubs?

 

[Brewnaldo]

Have you had a vaccine injection and will you go into crowded pubs?

No I have not.

Yes I will, at the first opportunity with my priority being pubs which off the most normal pub experience.

Last summer I went to pubs and restaurants. No vaccine. I live with two kids who mix with dozens of other households every day. I have worked throughout.

I will take my vaccine immediately when offered. I see absolutely no benefit whatsoever in proving I have had it in terms of safety. I also haven't seen a single person on this thread manage to demonstrate how doing so DOES improve safety.

Just go back and read it all, and drink in the posts. Think about who has given demonstrable information that vaccine passport = increased safety.

Its nonsense, designed only to appease the frightened. Its the governments fault vast swathes of the population are living in disproportionate fear.

Once again, the maximum protection any individual can be afforded from this is one of the highly effective vaccines. Everything else is in the form blanket restrictions on other peoples lives which are socially and economically destructive and should be removed at the earliest opportunity based on NHS capacity.

The vaccine passport is a deeply cynical attempt to convince people its now somehow safer, and the best we can hope for is that they ARE temporary, and they ARE NOT used for any nefarious means.

If you blindly trust in either of the above then more fool you. People can and will wave this through in their desperation/indifference to the Tories increasingly brazen antics, however.....

The challenge remains open. Someone explain to me how you personally are safer in a pub that requires proof of vaccine to enter.

 

[Brewnaldo]

If you wish to go into a supermarket or other shop, you must wear a mask, or provide medical proof of why you cannot.

If you wish to go in a pub, sporting event etc., you must have had the vaccination(s), only unlike a mask, it is not visible, so a proof of vaccination will be needed. Again if anyone cannot be vaccinated on medical grounds, then an alternative such as a recent negative test result would be needed.

Its not a punishment for those that have not been vaccinated, but a reward for those that have.

Punishment/reward

Since when was it the job of the government to put the population on the naughty step!?

This mission creep/fetishism for the continuing use of emergency powers long past the point of emergency would be funny if it was a gateway to an absolute **** show

 

[johnny108]

If you wish to go into a supermarket or other shop, you must wear a mask, or provide medical proof of why you cannot.

If you wish to go in a pub, sporting event etc., you must have had the vaccination(s), only unlike a mask, it is not visible, so a proof of vaccination will be needed. Again if anyone cannot be vaccinated on medical grounds, then an alternative such as a recent negative test result would be needed.

Its not a punishment for those that have not been vaccinated, but a reward for those that have.

A reward?
Participating in society normally is a reward?
How horrifying.

 

[trummy]

'I will take my vaccine immediately when offered. I see absolutely no benefit whatsoever in proving I have had it in terms of safety. I also haven't seen a single person on this thread manage to demonstrate how doing so DOES improve safety.
Just go back and read it all, and drink in the posts. Think about who has given demonstrable information that vaccine passport = increased safety.
Its nonsense, designed only to appease the frightened. Its the governments fault vast swathes of the population are living in disproportionate fear. '

Its wider than pubs and supermarkets though! Football, Rugby, Cricket crowds, and music festivals. I used to frequent a couple of these and am hoping to do again in the future. it would be nice and relaxed to have some assurance that the person sitting next to me was not a risk (as far as possible) to my well-being.

Also having to have a 'passport' may persuade those sitting on the fence to get one.

We all need to pull together, to beat and eliminate the damned virus

 

[Brewnaldo]

'I will take my vaccine immediately when offered. I see absolutely no benefit whatsoever in proving I have had it in terms of safety. I also haven't seen a single person on this thread manage to demonstrate how doing so DOES improve safety.
Just go back and read it all, and drink in the posts. Think about who has given demonstrable information that vaccine passport = increased safety.
Its nonsense, designed only to appease the frightened. Its the governments fault vast swathes of the population are living in disproportionate fear. '

Its wider than pubs and supermarkets though! Football, Rugby, Cricket crowds, and music festivals. I used to frequent a couple of these and am hoping to do again in the future. it would be nice and relaxed to have some assurance that the person sitting next to me was not a risk (as far as possible) to my well-being.

Also having to have a 'passport' may persuade those sitting on the fence to get one.

We all need to pull together, to beat and eliminate the damned virus

Right, but the person sitting next to you isn't a risk, because YOU have been vaccinated. Once again.... Vaccinated people can either catch and carry the virus thus, its irrelevant if both of you can prove you are vaccinated OR, vaccinated people cannot catch and carry the virus, in which case you are safe regardless.

The vaccines are hugely effective. Almost 100%. They afford you all the protection you could ever want, whereas the covid passport is just something that sounds like a clever idea but actually crumples under the most basic of scrutiny.

I'm really not trying to be arsey here, but what I said was, show me how it makes you any safer, and you replied with absolutely nothing that quantifies how proof of vaccine for others makes you, a vaccinated person, any safer. You also made another point iv already made, its much wider than pubs. It includes all of those palces you mention which will be frequented by children who wont be vaccinated, and who are largely considered to be more likely asymptomatic carriers.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Right, but the person sitting next to you isn't a risk, because YOU have been vaccinated. Once again.... Vaccinated people can either catch and carry the virus thus, its irrelevant if both of you can prove you are vaccinated OR, vaccinated people cannot catch and carry the virus, in which case you are safe regardless.

The vaccines are hugely effective. Almost 100%. They afford you all the protection you could ever want, whereas the covid passport is just something that sounds like a clever idea but actually crumples under the most basic of scrutiny.

I'm really not trying to be arsey here, but what I said was, show me how it makes you any safer, and you replied with absolutely nothing that quantifies how proof of vaccine for others makes you, a vaccinated person, any safer. You also made another point iv already made, its much wider than pubs. It includes all of those palces you mention which will be frequented by children who wont be vaccinated, and who are largely considered to be more likely asymptomatic carriers.

Based on what I've seen in this thread, I have no idea why people got the vaccine. The whole point of it is that it makes you safe. The important thing is that the most vulnerable get vaccinated as they account for the vast majority of hospitalisations. We may find that cases sharply rise in the coming weeks, but it's hospitalisations that is the important metric.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Based on what I've seen in this thread, I have no idea why people got the vaccine. The whole point of it is that it makes you safe. The important thing is that the most vulnerable get vaccinated as they account for the vast majority of hospitalisations. We may find that cases sharply rise in the coming weeks, but it's hospitalisations that is the important metric.

People have slipped into this mindset of demanding complete safety from a respiratory virus. Like I said before, losing the run of themselves. People will continue to die of covid because it exists, because there's no appetite to eradicate it, and because no vaccine can be 100% effective in 100% of case. These ones are pretty close though and should actually be viewed as the finest achievement in modern medicine, or one of.

There is an acceptable death rate from Covid. Chris Whitty has said as much, so people are just going to have try and move past the fear and get on with it. Its the insistence on the right to be protected from it over and above being given a vaccine that gets me. Probably because it s anew virus, but its here to stay and no amount of data harvesting, authoritarian nonsense dressed up as a safety measure will change that

 

[The Baron]

I think some are people are losing track of why they are looking to use passports it is because in my understanding is that people who have been vaccinated are deemed safe but if they allowed unvaccinated people to mix they would be a risk to other unvaccinated people and would pass it on /spread covid or the unvaccinated being at risk from vaccinated people who could still be carriers hence Vaccine passports. If I had not been vaccinated I would not want to be sat next to somebody who may be a risk to me.
By using the passports they will be able to open up venues that have suffered massive financial losses earlier albeit to a smaller amount of people but hopefully enough to keep them afloat

 

[Brewnaldo]

I think some are people are losing track of why they are looking to use passports it is because in my understanding is that people who have been vaccinated are deemed safe but if they allowed unvaccinated people to mix they would be a risk to other unvaccinated people and would pass it on /spread covid or the unvaccinated being at risk from vaccinated people who could still be carriers hence Vaccine passports. If I had not been vaccinated I would not want to be sat next to somebody who may be a risk to me.
By using the passports they will be able to open up venues that have suffered massive financial losses earlier albeit to a smaller amount of people but hopefully enough to keep them afloat

But they aren't being introduced until all adults have been offered the vaccine.....

See when actual Tories are coming out and saying this is a stupid idea, thats the time to stop and wonder what else might be going on here.

 

[The Baron]

Nobody knows that there is talk of them being used before everybody has been offered the vaccine so as far as I am aware anything is possible who knows but Initially that is what was said hence all the arguments flying around about it being unfair and the same as regards requiring some workers having to have vaccines for their jobs. There may be some clarity in the annoucements regards holidays/travels tomorrow which may shed some light on who will be able to travel abroad and under what terms and whether passports will be for the vaccinated or waiting until everybody is offered a vaccine?for this kind of travel