Covid Passports

[Covrich]

I'm pointing out a precedent for paperwork being required before some people can go to the pub, and if they don't qualify, they aren't allowed in.

So what did you mean by "I in theory dont mind it for the purpose it serves but I dont like the presedence it sets."?

But you are fighting a strawman, there is no point even trying to explain this, maybe I wrote it wrong but you have already decide to pounce on a point I haven;t made with some weird argument.. I don't even disagree with what you are saying which is the oddest part of this.. But If i write something of an opinion or a concern and its pulled apart on some random tangent then there is no point.

 

[dad_of_jon]

78% taking it certainly isn't "not going to take the vaccination in anywhere near the same numbers" by the time they get round to them the advertising will target them on social media and places they visit and i imagine take up will be higher, time will tall if i am right.

Screen shot from the BBC report - Covid vaccine: Will young people take it?

I think there are more younger people who recognise the risks to their older relatives and will have the *** to keep them safer and be able to visit without the risk of killing them. if you add up the protection from the *** of dying plus the reduction of passing it on if you have had the *** it adds up to a pretty good improvment of the situation since march 2020. Whether passports will apply to access pubs in the uk or not. I'm not going anywhere where they cram them all in. Stuff that for a game of marbles

 

[Northern_Brewer]

But you are fighting a strawman, there is no point even trying to explain this, maybe I wrote it wrong but you have already decide to pounce on a point I haven;t made with some weird argument..

Well then perhaps you can explain what you're trying to say when you talk about "can I go in to a place resturant with my kids or are they outcasts in society too? " It's obviously something you feel strongly about if you're repeatedly using the word "outcast".

 

[simon12]

It doesn't look like many of you will agree with me but my thoughts are regards to pub vaccine passports are. First no pub will require it unless the law (or what ever the restrictions and fines are) says they need to. If pubs are opening in under 6 weeks indoors there is no way hardly any young people will have been vaccinated (especially since we just banned AstraZeneca for under 30s) these guys have given up the pub for getting on a year to protect older people from something they have almost no chance of dying from, so let them have what they want and those who don't think its safe can stay at home.

 

[The Baron]

I am not going to agree or disagree at this moment in time but how are you going to make them social distance and wear masks when not seated inside when it does open up or are you suggesting its back to normal and nobody follows government guidelines- only asking

 

[simon12]

I am not going to agree or disagree at this moment in time but how are you going to make them social distance and wear masks when not seated inside when it does open up or are you suggesting its back to normal and nobody follows government guidelines- only asking

I don't know, I guess it will vary alot from pub to pub. I suspect since schools going back seemed to only make cases stabilise for a week then fall again I suspect we could go back to no covid restrictions/laws just a bit of advice and there could be only a small or no spike in cases. Personally I would prefer they opened everything now with a warning it will all close again if theres a spike in cases but theres obviously no chance of that. I also think that being allowed to meet others in there/your home should have been the 1st thing to lift as its the biggest breech of basic human rights.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I also think that being allowed to meet others in there/your home should have been the 1st thing to lift as its the biggest breech of basic human rights.

One of my neighbours has carried on as if Covid never happened from day one parties in the back garden and in the house later at night the only reason i didnt phone the police was i cannot stand them and was hoping the lot of them would get it.



The above statement is not strictly true i didn't really want them to get it but only because they may have infected someone that didn't deserve it.

 

[Scottyburto]

Last night 8ish I went to a local shop, formally Nisa extra now another national brand but you get the idea of about tennis court size. About 20-25 people in there, age range probably 12-50. Only 4 wearing masks, dispute the till being by the entrance, shop keeper didn't challenge anyone about masks. He did challenge a kid about 15 for ID to buy alcohol and he argued with him before handing it to an older girl and said you buy it me. Which she did.

Now I know it's an observation but how often does this happen up and down the country everyday. This is a national company that already has licensing restrictions on the sale of alcohol and if it was a test purchase or someone reported it the police could take the CCTV and prosecute the sales assistant and probably the owner/license holder/franchisee.
But he still sold the Alcohol despite the risk.

What independent cafe or retaurant is even going to challenge it? I've said it before nowhere is gonna turn away tables if 1 or 2 of the booking doesn't have a vaccine passport. Not when they've been closed for best part of a year and potentially on their last legs for credit/debt.

Pubs are a completely different proposition. Would you stand up to a large group of inhebriated people when one doesn't have a passport? When you know it's just you and another member of staff?

I know alot of people will say well I wouldn't go somewhere like that. It happens in all pubs and all bars. Youll find the more exclusive/upmarket are the least likely to challenge. It's like the underage no id trick of hiding them in a corner out of sight of the bar and buying drinks for them. How would you stop that? Only way I can see is door staff which is financially unviable for a lot of places.

How would McDonald's or KFC implement a vaccine passport on their restaurant? Bearing in mind they have a significantly larger revenue than your local Italian restaurant or curry house?

Shopping centres you can walk round all afternoon going in all the shops but then can't eat at a restaurant in there.

We'd all like to go back to normal and live in this idealised world and I can see were a vaccine passport at airports, stadiums, and concerts is completely viable. These are ticketed events where all details are taken in advance at the point of booking and no one else can't enter.

The covid passport is dangerous in that it creates a false sense of security that it can't guarantee.

 

[Scottyburto]

Apologies for the essay.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

We'd all like to go back to normal and live in this idealised world and I can see were a vaccine passport at airports, stadiums, and concerts is completely viable. These are ticketed events where all details are taken in advance at the point of booking and no one else can't enter.

Which at the moment is all that's being proposed, it's not proposed for hospitality at the moment so the government is violently agreeing with you.

And in your above anecdote, certification for age "worked" on one level in that it wasn't actually bought by the U18, although the shop assistant was blatantly breaking the law on selling alcohol that would likely be consumed by a minor. I imagine enforcement of that kind of thing has got a bit slack lately, but anecdotally enforcement of Covid rules at licensed premises has been fairly active - my experience is that pubs did push things as far as they could go with eg degree of enclosure of outside spaces, but once plod/Environmental Health had paid a visit they were fairly good, they know that being in breach of their licence is catastrophic for their business.

The covid passport is dangerous in that it creates a false sense of security that it can't guarantee.

As above - it's not trying to guarantee security, it's about saving the government money by allowing businesses to open to 60% of their market rather than be completely closed.

 

[Scottyburto]

I agree with what you're saying. I just can't see how a hospitality company could operate at 60% capacity without any additional charges. Even if 60% is the low end, enforcing passports and ensuring their staff are either covered or protected is an additional cost I can't see them being able to swallow.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Of course, arguably it's as bad as the tier system for pubs, but Johnson doesn't see that as his problem, he just wants to stop furlough. So yes, pubs need all the support we can give them, particularly by showing up at quiet times rather than all piling down there on a Friday and Saturday night when they are likely to already be at the maximum of their restricted capacity.

Another way of looking at it is that we're more than happy as customers for staff involved in food preparation to be restricted in their freedom to have dirty hands or to not cook food properly. That's for our health - so is it unreasonable to have minor constraints on customer's freedoms to protect barstaff in return?


Current leaks to the press seem to be suggesting that passporting will be introduced for pubs at the time of the final release from restrictions (ie currently mid-June), which makes no sense from a health or economic perspective, it's clear they are using passporting as a way to encourage people to get the *** and nothing else.

 

[Brew_DD2]

it's clear they are using passporting as a way to encourage people to get the *** and nothing else

That's if you look at it through the lens of the government not being total opportunists.

 

[Gerryjo]

Well this surprised me, I have googled it and there is contrary statements. The one that seemed to make the most sense was you can trace the mobile to its last known active location before it is switched off. This makes sense to me, as to transmit anything it needs power, but I am open for someone more tech savey to correct me.

Try powering down a phone,leave it for a month and turn it back both times noting power percentage to see the difference.

 

[BeerCat]

One of my neighbours has carried on as if Covid never happened from day one parties in the back garden and in the house later at night the only reason i didnt phone the police was i cannot stand them and was hoping the lot of them would get it.



The above statement is not strictly true i didn't really want them to get it but only because they may have infected someone that didn't deserve it.

I am your neighbor.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I am your neighbor.

If that's the case when did you give up brewing your own and take up drinking Fosters as your recycling bin is always full of empty Fosters cans?

 

[Scottyburto]

BBC News - Covid-19: Vaccine passports could create 'two-tier society', equality watchdog warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56755161
Interesting side note at the end referencing that not even half of all care homes have vacinated all their staff.

Also that it is currently illegal to ask an employee their vaccination status.

If a venues staff aren't vaccinated then the whole passport system is fundamentally flawed. These are the people who are handling your glassware, cutlery, food, money.

How are those <4 star hygiene rated takeaways/restaurants supplying people's homes?
Where/How do they store their takeaway packaging?
How are councils policing it when most have suspended EHO/hygiene rating visits?

At best a passport would work at large venues. At worst it would be a false sense of security.