Covid-19 the second wave.

[Chippy_Tea]

Well this is part of the problem,

The problem (as i see it) is it doesn't matter what they do its still spreading as people are not following the rules, i fill my truck every day and it takes a while i see countless numbers of people going into the garage with no face coverings the staff have been told they haven't to challenge them so the ignorant amongst us carry on, how can you stop this behaviour?

I can imagine what the pubs were like late on on a Friday and Saturday night drunk people and distancing was never going to work and it didn't.

The only way to stop this spreading is to keep people apart the cost is business closing and job losses it seems they are trying to address this but if people don't do their bit (staying away from others) its not going to work (as we have seen over the last couple of weeks)

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I dont want to appear antagonistic, but I got the impression you were pro-lockdown and against those wanting to open things up? So, isn't that a good thing from your point of view?

I am pro but that doesn't mean you enjoy it.

 

[marshbrewer]

I hear ya. I think we can all agree @Cheshire Cat that none of us are enjoying any of this, whatever our viewpoints on how to get out of it!

 

[trueblue]

Talking to a customer at work today and he has a 33 year old son who has long term covid. Evidently he is a physiotherapist, has no health problems, trains in the gym 3 times a week, is not over weight and has never smoked. He contracted the virus over 3 months ago and is still struggling to just get out of bed in the morning. His hospital colleagues have told him they are seeing a lot more younger people in the same situation. To me this is another argument against herd immunity you may protect the vulnerable but it looks like anyone could suffer long term effects which at the moment is a big unknown.

 

[Saisonator]

Just on the "scientists disagree" thing - it's easy to manufacture the appearance of scientific disagreement. It was a common trick played by the tobacco companies, get a scientist to imply the consensus is not settled in order to bamboozle non-specialist politicians. "The scientists disagree" is how they avoided major restrictions on tobacco for a good 20 years or so after the vast majority of cancer specialists were convinced that smoking caused lung cancer etc.

Some of the most useful people for these purposes are people in neighbouring fields who from the outside sound like they might plausibly have expertise in the matter in question. They can also be the easiest to mislead, as their great competence in one field leads them to all sorts of false assumptions about how a neighbouring field works, it's a bit like a car driver thinking they can fly a plane, or Real Madrid playing cricket. A classic example is Linus Pauling, a two-time Nobel prize winner who ended up obsessing over vitamin C as a cure for cancer and other things. (which it's not)

It's notable that the three main people behind the Great Barrington Declaration are eminent in their fields, but not in viral epidemiology. That immediately raises my suspicions. Whereas it's not too hard to find specialists in the epidemiology of respiratory and viral diseases in the signatories of the John Snow Memorandum opposing it - like Debby Bogaert and Rupert Beale who work on the biology of pneumonia and flu respectively, and Nahid Bhadelia - leader of a project against viral hemorrhagic fevers in Uganda/Congo. And that's just some of the B's!

Just generally, I think every single person I've seen who works on SARS1/MERS/Ebola, has been in the "do everything you can to stop it" camp - and it's notable that the Asian countries that were most exposed to SARS1 and the African countries exposed to Ebola, have been some of the most successful in stopping SARS2 early and getting their economies back to something like "normal". Whereas the countries who have toyed with a more laissez-faire approach have been the ones with the highest mortality rates and biggest hits to their economies.

Don't be the equivalent of the people in the 1990s who thought smoking was fine "because the scientists disagree". Don't be on the cricket team with Cristiano Ronaldo rather than Ben Stokes.

These scientists are not being funded by some outside body, so why be disingenuous and try and smear them by comparing them with those paid off by the tobacco industry to give false information?
You could get a job as a Guardian ‘journalist’ with those type of comments
They believe just as passionately as those with opposing views that most governments are taking the wrong course.
Signatories include top epidemiologists.
But let’s not get tunnel visioned about this virus, the damage being done by over reaction to the virus could be more fatal than the virus itself.

 

[An Ankoù]

You could get a job as a Guardian ‘journalist’ with those type of comments

You do yourself no favours slagging off Guardian journalists. They fjuck up from time to time, but most of the time they're on the ball and I think they're trying to be objective even though, like all newspapers, they have their political bias. Would you prefer The Express or heaven forbid (and I wash out my mouth with Harpic) The Mail?
The good old days of The Daily Sport are long gone I'm afraid.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The problem (as i see it) is it doesn't matter what they do its still spreading as people are not following the rules,

And here is more proof, this news broke tonight -


England's match against the Barbarians at Twickenham on Sunday has been called off after 12 Barbarians players were stood down for breaking Covid rules.

The players left their hotel bubble - contrary to team protocols - to have dinner at a London restaurant.
During its investigation, the Rugby Football Union (RFU) said it discovered another breach where players left the hotel without permission.

Former England captain Chris Robshaw is among the players who have apologised.

The RFU said the players' actions meant the "bubble environment" was compromised.

"We are incredibly disappointed to be calling a halt to this fixture," said RFU chief executive Bill Sweeney. "We know how much fans were looking forward to seeing the teams play.

"However, our priority is to protect the health and safety of the England squad and the other international teams they will go up against this autumn."

Robshaw 'sincerely remorseful' for breach

Robshaw, Richard Wigglesworth, Sean Maitland and Jackson Wray were among the 12 players stood down from the fixture, along with a number of other Saracens players.

Robshaw, who is set to join San Diego Legion in the US, expressed his "deepest apologies" for "leaving the hotel post-training with some of my team-mates".

"A huge effort went into conducting this match in a safe fashion and it was irresponsible of me to break the protocols which are put in place to protect players, staff and the public," he said.

"I understand that my actions have ultimately contributed to the cancellation of Sunday's match and I am sincerely remorseful for my role in undoing all the amazing work that went into trying to make it happen.

"I promise that I will learn from this mistake and ensure something like this never happens again."

Former England scrum-half Wigglesworth said: "Embarrassed and beyond gutted to have let (coach) Vern Cotter and everyone at Barbarians FC as well as the RFU.

"Should not have happened and for that I am truly sorry. I've let a lot of people down including myself and wish I'd done it differently. Sorry again."

The Barbarians, who announced their 23-man squad on Wednesday, were given a 15:00 BST deadline on Friday to attempt to recruit a team.

Premiership Rugby officials emailed clubs on Thursday to ask if they would release players to play for the invitational side.

However, it has now been deemed unsafe to fulfil the fixture.

Sweeney said: "There has been a great deal of effort put into Covid codes of conduct and planning for games, including cooperation with Premiership clubs to release additional players to fulfil the fixture safely.

"We are all incredibly frustrated and disappointed that the actions of a number of Barbarians players mean we no longer feel it is safe for the game to go ahead."

Barbarian FC expressed their "extreme disappointment" in the conduct of the players who breached regulations.

The build-up to Barbarians games is famous for its focus on socialising and the team management installed a team room in their London base to keep the players entertained.

 

[Saisonator]

 

[Chippy_Tea]

He has challenged Hancock and prof Ferguson to give evidence as to how they know there will be a second wave, i hope he isn't going to hold his breath waiting for an answer.

 

[Hopperty]

 

[Chippy_Tea]

That should read Head Dick!

 

[johncrobinson]

Re Northern Brewer,

Your comment at No 459 is absolutely SPOT ON.

I am old enough to remember the cancer debate and i also read Linus Pauling on vit C.

 

[Saisonator]

You do yourself no favours slagging off Guardian journalists. They fjuck up from time to time, but most of the time they're on the ball and I think they're trying to be objective even though, like all newspapers, they have their political bias. Would you prefer The Express or heaven forbid (and I wash out my mouth with Harpic) The Mail?
The good old days of The Daily Sport are long gone I'm afraid.

They carry out smear jobs on people with opposing views every bit as much as the Daily Mail.
Only thing is the woke Left have such a narrow set of acceptable views, they have more people outside their bubble to be criticise / cancel.

 

[the_quick]

With the herd immunity and the whole idea of it, it is more question of morality and ethics not a political side. Lots more would die, lots would suffer long term (long Covid), lots people would be in hospitals - unless you decide not to threat them. what is the upside? It might work - not good enough for me.

 

[marshbrewer]

There are scientists who disagree with your premise; if you look at the whole picture (i.e. the number of deaths caused by lockdown). I'm not sure where I stand, except to say that this deliberate mis-characterisation by the Guardian et al that the GBD people are saying 'sod it and let everyone die' is one of the most embarrassing pieces of pathetic journalism I have ever seen. Mind you, as a hatchet job, it's worked as many on here believe that is what is being proposed.

 

[simon12]

With the herd immunity and the whole idea of it, it is more question of morality and ethics not a political side. Lots more would die, lots would suffer long term (long Covid), lots people would be in hospitals - unless you decide not to threat them. what is the upside? It might work - not good enough for me.

No the idea of natural herd immunity is you let the healthy people get it while protecting the venerable then in a few months the healthy people have had it and can no longer pass it to the venerable rather than putting the entire population into lockdowns and other restrictions and making the elderly have to stay at home for a year plus to not be at risk and being all in on hoping for a safe and effective vaccine which does look promising, but even best case scenario we are looking to need much more restrictions and likely a 3rd wave before we get there.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Why are we only protecting religious people what about the vulnerable one they should be protected too.

 

[marshbrewer]

Are the vulnerable not also venerable? You know, Blessed are the poor of spirit and all that?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Sorry couldn't resist

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Blessed are the Cheesemakers

Life of Brian 19:79