Covid-19 the second wave.

[531Man]

Aren't there other parts of our body that can fight the virus as well as the immune system? Also our immune system as a memory so can remember how to react to the virus if caught again.

Glad you bring this up.
The antibodies tested are produced only by end-of-a-chain stimulated B-cell lymphocytes, called 'plasma cells'.

As well as direct action cells there are 'memory' parts of the body, as you mention, and these are called 'Memory cells' which are also part of the adaptive immune system, which involves many white blood, lymph node and the spleen cells lines of the T-lymphocyte series like helper and suppressor cells (T4 and T8), Natural Killer cells and monocyte cell lines. These are only some of those identified and this list is extensive and increasing all the time.
All these latter types are not detectable by simple antibody tests, and are the sort that help mount attacks on subsequent same-virus infections.
These are the ones we rely on with vaccination programmes as they are involved in the memory part of the immune response.
So the reducing population antibody study result is not to be confused with any vaccination effectiveness.
It has been mentioned here before, but I think it is worth highlighting that vaccinations are designed to provide a wider specificity and longer lasting immunity than a single infection by Covid or any other virus does, and this is somewhat similar to, and is confirmed by the Health Care workers having a stronger and longer lasting antibody test result due to multiple exposure, than the general population. Those that survived, that is.
Many health workers have died due to this repeated exposure, as did transport workers, amongst others.

Makes me glad I reached retirement age before Covid appeared!
(I did work through MERS, SARS and Ebola, and the London Underground and Bus bombings, though.)

 

[simon12]

Any one wanting to know more on immunity this is worth a watch

To sum up immunity is very likely long lasting

 

[trueblue]

 

[marshbrewer]

I worry lockdown Mk II will permanently shaft the economy. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear the worst. I assume all the lockdown evangelists have found a magic unicorn to fund their jobs and households in the future, because I don't see the public purse having a penny to spare outside of very basic social security and minimalistic healthcare. God help us all.

 

[Rodcx500z]

This is turning into a one flew over the cukoo's nest situations

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The PM will meet his cabinet later as he considers a month-long lockdown across England - in the hope that measures could be eased by Christmas.

A new "stay at home" order could be announced on Monday, with schools, colleges and universities exempt.

Documents seen by the BBC suggest the UK is on course for a much higher death toll than during the first wave unless further restrictions are introduced.

Deaths could reach more than 4,000 a day, one of the models suggests.

This figure is based on no policies being brought in to slow the spread of the disease, but most of the models peak at about 2,000 a day.

Downing Street said Boris Johnson will chair a cabinet meeting at 13:30 GMT to discuss the government's coronavirus response.

At the height of the pandemic during the spring, deaths in the UK reached more than 1,000 a day.

Infection rates are currently soaring across much of Europe, prompting new forms of lockdown in Belgium, France and Germany.

The papers, understood to be part of a presentation by the government's pandemic modelling group SPI-M shown to Boris Johnson, feature several different projections of the likely course of the disease.

All models predict that hospitalisations are likely to peak in mid-December, with deaths rising until at least late December before falling from early January.

And a separate document circulating in government - based on NHS England modelling from 28 October - warns that the NHS would be unable to accept any more patients by Christmas, even if the Nightingale hospitals are used and non-urgent procedures cancelled.

The document warns that south-west England and the Midlands will be the first to run out of capacity, potentially within a fortnight.

Full article - Coronavirus: Cabinet to meet as PM considers England lockdown

 

[the_quick]

I don't think they have much choice. But this could be avoided if the time bought with first lock down have been used better, serco test and trace is not working as intended, lots of money wasted on PPE equipment that wasn't up to the standard needed. It feels like only winners are those companies that have been awarded contracts.
Lets hope this lock down will be used in a better way - as it just buys time.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Lets hope this lock down will be used in a better way - as it just buys time.

And that is what is needed its not going away and until a vaccine is available its damage limitation unfortunately some people think the rules are not aimed at them and they can ignore them.

 

[Falco]

For those unaware, this COVID Symptom Study - Help slow the spread of COVID-19 run by Kings College London is well worth getting involved with. Both me and my wife have been reporting our symptoms daily for a while now, even managed to get a home testing kit for us when one of us reported symptoms, thankfully came back negative.

This is their latest interesting summary of what they’re finding from the 1 million people who are reporting daily:

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Police have broken up an illegal house party with more than 40 people in attendance.

A householder was served with a penalty notice after the party in Davenport Drive, Cleethorpes, early on Saturday, Humberside Police said.

Ch Insp Paul French said it "was a reckless breach of Covid-19 regulations."

The party was "not only illegal, but increases the risk of infecting so many other people", he added.

The fixed penalty notice handed out for breaches potentially "could lead to a £10,000 fine", he added.

North East Lincolnshire, North Lincolnshire, Hull and East Riding of Yorkshire entered tier two of coronavirus restrictions at 00:01 GMT on Saturday,

Under these rules, households are no longer be able to mix indoors in any setting, in homes or elsewhere

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-54761711

Help Support The Home Brew Forum (£3 per month or £16 per year) - Click Here to Find Out How!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

England will go into a second national lockdown for a month, Prime Minister Boris Johnson is set to announce.

Non-essential shops and hospitality will have to close, sources told the BBC.

But unlike the restriction in the spring, schools and colleges are to be allowed to stay open.

It comes as documents suggested the UK was on course for a much higher death toll than during the first wave.

The prime minister is due to lead a news conference at 17:00 GMT after holding a cabinet meeting to discuss the coronavirus response earlier.

He is set to be joined by England's chief medical officer Chris Whitty and the government's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance for the briefing.

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

You can receive Breaking News on a smartphone or tablet via the BBC News App. You can also follow @BBCBreaking on Twitter to get the latest alerts.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

But unlike the restriction in the spring, schools and colleges are to be allowed to stay open.

No lockdown is going to work with these places still open. It’s like closing all the windows to keep the heat in but leaving your back door wide open!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

No lockdown is going to work with these places still open. It’s like closing all the windows to keep the heat in but leaving your back door wide open!

I don't get why keeping people off school/college for a few weeks is such a big deal there are many ways they can keep learning they don't all need to be in a classroom with a teacher.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Covid-19: The documents pushing Johnson to act

Not so long ago, the prime minister swore that it was not inevitable. The second wave of the deadly disease would not, and did not, he vowed, have to mean a second moment where our doors would close, high streets fall silent, and the frightened quiet of lockdown return.

But day after day as the numbers of infections have risen, quibbles with local areas on their status continued, the moment has come closer, and now it seems almost sure to return.

Official government documents, seen by the BBC, make the case clear.

The papers suggest that the UK is on course for a significantly higher death toll from coronavirus than during the first wave of the pandemic, unless ministers implement further restrictions.

One of the documents, circulated among members of the government's Sage committee in recent days and discussed by Boris Johnson and Chancellor Rishi Sunak on Friday, says that "all models suggest a significantly higher peak than those estimated at any point in the current Reasonable Worst Case Scenario".

The document, says that "median peak infections are projected to be 50% to 150% greater" than those in the first wave.

Read full article - Covid-19: The documents pushing Johnson to act

 

[Ambivalent Squirrel]

we're going into another national lockdown, and I don't understand why the people who were shielding mar-sep havent been told to do the same again.

 

[Leon103]

we're going into another national lockdown, and I don't understand why the people who were shielding mar-sep havent been told to do the same again.

Most will know how to take care of themselves and should know the virus is still out there. To be honest around where I lived it was the elderly that didn't seem to care about the first lockdown. A neighbour had a letter from her gp to isolate and came over to tell is and said it must have been a mistake, which it wasn't. Her and her husband were out everyday and still ate despite being back in lockdown

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Back into lockdown.

It all starts again on Thursday.

 

[marshbrewer]

Onto the merry go round we go, with the politicians arguing which horse we should sit on.

 

[VW911]

It really boils my **** that they are keeping the schools open.
Yeah, I understand that the kids need to learn, but it seems to me like the people who actually run the schools are basically being used as cannon fodder.
My wife (who happens to be vulnerable, as am I) works in a school. Their view is that the teaching/cooking/cleaning etc. staff are dispensable.
Shame on them.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

rime Minister Boris Johnson has announced a second national lockdown for England as the UK passed one million Covid-19 cases.

He said the steps were necessary to avoid the "medical and moral disaster" of the NHS being overwhelmed.

Non-essential shops and hospitality will have to close for four weeks on Thursday, he said.

But unlike the restrictions in spring, schools, colleges and universities will be allowed to stay open.

After 2 December, the restrictions would be eased and regions would go back to the tiered system, he said.

Mr Johnson said: "Christmas is going to be different this year, perhaps very different, but it's my sincere hope and belief that by taking tough action now we can allow families across the country to be together."

The prime minister told a Downing Street news conference that he was "truly, truly sorry" for the impact on businesses, but said the furlough system paying 80% of employee wages will be extended through November.

He said hospitals even in the south-west of England, where cases are among the lowest, will run out of capacity in weeks.

"Doctors and nurses would be forced to choose which patients to treat, who would get oxygen and who wouldn't, who would live and who would die," Mr Johnson said.

Takeaways will be allowed to stay open as pubs, bars and restaurants close and people are being told they can only meet one person from outside their household outdoors.

Mr Johnson, who chaired a cabinet meeting on Saturday afternoon, will make a statement to Parliament on Monday.

The UK recorded another 21,915 confirmed coronavirus cases on Saturday, bringing the total since the pandemic began to 1,011,660.

Another 326 people were reported to have died within 28 days of a positive test.

The UK is the ninth country to reach the milestone of a million cases - after the US, India, Brazil, Russia, France, Spain, Argentina and Colombia.

Full article - Covid-19: PM announces four-week England lockdown