Brunken Dastard's Big Bad Brewery Build

[onelegout]

Spoke to the guys at Coors, they were very nice but said that the kegs were property of coors and that I probably couldn't keep them. He CC'd the email to someone at Kegwatch, and said that they would say whether or not I could keep them. That was at least a month ago and I've recieved no reply from kegwatch. They also haven't replied to the emails I sent them so as far as I'm concerned the ball's been in their court and they haven't been bothered about it, so I plan to keep the kegs for the time being until I can get some decent stock pots to replace them. I would suggest staying away from commercial kegs though as although the companies who own them are quite nice and polite, I've heard very different stories about kegwatch. It's just not worth the hassle.

Going to do some work on the brewery later, finishing off the welds that have been tacked and grinding them all down. Got a quote from a local powdercoating company, £40 + vat for painting it any colour I want. I am so, so tempted to get it chromed though

H

 

[unclepumble]

Spoke to the guys at Coors, they were very nice but said that the kegs were property of coors and that I probably couldn't keep them. He CC'd the email to someone at Kegwatch, and said that they would say whether or not I could keep them. That was at least a month ago and I've recieved no reply from kegwatch. They also haven't replied to the emails I sent them so as far as I'm concerned the ball's been in their court and they haven't been bothered about it, so I plan to keep the kegs for the time being until I can get some decent stock pots to replace them. I would suggest staying away from commercial kegs though as although the companies who own them are quite nice and polite, I've heard very different stories about kegwatch. It's just not worth the hassle.

Going to do some work on the brewery later, finishing off the welds that have been tacked and grinding them all down. Got a quote from a local powdercoating company, £40 + vat for painting it any colour I want. I am so, so tempted to get it chromed though

H

I wouldn't chrome it it would soon start to rust.
If kegwatch are on the case get rid, or you may end up in court, kegwatch are a business in their own right, and are keen to prosecute, when ever possible.
If you want good cheap kegs try here http://www.alibaba.com/product/uk105061 ... _Kegs.html £75 each and they have plenty from what I see.

UP

 

[onelegout]

cool I'll order 3 of them once my pay comes through :)

 

[onelegout]

Ok so I've done a bit more on the brewery, got some decent legitimate kegs which I'm going to have to insulate. Tested the Backer heating elements the other day but unfortunately the plastic threaded backs to them are a pile of steaming horse..... you get the picture. Luckily I wasn't killed by the terribly dangerous elements bursting open as soon as they got hot, (water poured all over the cables) - the cables which I had to buy elsewhere as backer like to sell you their products without the cables, and dont tell you that the cables will cost twice what the elements cost EACH! - but I managed to turn them off before any lives were lost. Cheers Backer. [/rant]

So where was I? right. I found that I'm going to have to insulate the kegs to acheive a boil in under an hour; it took an hour and a half without the insulation, so it's off to homebase to pick up some foil bubblewrap insulation asap.

In the mean time, here's a quick diagram I made on how I plan to make do with just one pump. One thing I don't understand is whether the shut valves will stop liquid going down those legs of the plumbing?

 

[jenki]

WOW, that's some setup :clap: , and seems to work, :thumb: the only comment i'd make is you might be able to justify another pump instead of all the valves and pipe work?

 

[onelegout]

That's a good point... I'll do that math and see how much it would cost for each setup :)

 

[onelegout]

someone say shiney?

 

[onelegout]

Started work on the control box, got the PIDs wired up for a quick power test - they work but are VERY dim - hopefully there's a setting I can change to make them brighter :)

 

[unclepumble]

someone say shiney?

I take it the coors kegs needed a good disguise!

UP

 

[onelegout]

aah nope I got rid of the coors kegs, and bought 3 mucky old steel casks from a friendly local micro. They're structualy sound but look mank are pretty bashed up, far beyond polishing! When I cut them open I found at least 5 plugs in the bottom of each of them, meaning they haven't been cleaned between fillings. I've found that even with insulation it takes almost 2 hours to get a boil with only one 2750 watt backer element, so I'm going to put 2 in the boil kettle.

 

[onelegout]

Ok so I've been wiring up the PIDs to the thermocouples to check if they work, and I'm a bit confused!

The probes I got were these from virtual village:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0469836491

They have three wires.

1 x blue
1 x yellow
1 x Red marked 'PT100+'

The item description says that they are thermocouples with a range of 0 to 800*c.
it says 'It also benefits from an extra cable which acts exclusively as an output stabilizer. ' - I presume this is the one marked pt100+.

I've tried every conceivable way of wiring it to the PID, and so far only two ways work

blue & yellow hooked up to the + and - thermocouple inputs.

Which ever way round I put the blue and yellow cables, the same thing happens - the temp comes up at 20*c, climbs to 23*c, then stays there. Putting the probe in ice water or boiling water makes no difference to the measured temperature. My PID senses the type of sensor and its range automatically, and I can't set it manually as far as I can tell. It has an autotuning option, but the instructions give absolutely no information on how to use it, just that it exists.

How do I go about tuning it so that it works?

Thanks,
H

 

[jamesb]

It sounds like it's a non standard pt100 probe, rather than a standard thermocouple.

Have you got a resistance meter?

If so, you need to measure the resistance between the wires. One pair should read about 0 ohms between them. The other one should measure about 110 ohms at room temperature from the other two.

You may only have two terminals on the PID for the p100, if so don't connect one of the 0 ohm wires.

 

[onelegout]

Yeah I'm starting to think that this is not a Type K Thermocouple, as it was advertised, but a PT100+ probe, which I dont think my PID accepts.

I don't have a multimeter but might go buy one after work.

Here's what I've found so far:

Connecting any of the two cables up as if it was a thermocouple, it will show 22 or 23*C and not change. It will do this regardless of which 2 cables I connect and regardless of which way round they are connected.

Connecting any three cables up, in any order, it will not work and will return an error code 'LLLL' - this error code is not in the manual they've sent me.

Any ideas?

 

[jamesb]

Yeah I'm starting to think that this is not a Type K Thermocouple, as it was advertised, but a PT100+ probe, which I dont think my PID accepts.

Certainly doesn't follow the normal colour scheme and connections for a type K. Meter readings would definately determine the type of device.

Connecting any of the two cables up as if it was a thermocouple, it will show 22 or 23*C and not change. It will do this regardless of which 2 cables I connect and regardless of which way round they are connected.

That's probably reading the cold junction temperature as it probably thinks it doesn't have a probe connected.

 

[jamesb]

Looking closer at the picture, I bet you'll have 0 ohms between the two blue wires, and about 110 ohms between the red and either of the blues.

 

[onelegout]

Can anyone recommend a decent probe then? These are a pain in the ass

 

[jamesb]

They might not be the cheapest, but I have a TC Direct catalogue in front of me with lots of thermocouples in.

 

[onelegout]

I contacted the previous owner of the PIDs and he said that he checked a maintenance report and that the units were special one-off PIDs designed to use type J thermocouples, so I've ordered one to try it out. That said, the ones I got from virtual village were NOT K thermocouples, and virtual village know nothing about them, what the cables are, data-sheet etc. I've asked them to remove the items from ebay until they know what they are.

 

[onelegout]

OK so I got some REAL type k thermocouples, and they work a treat!
I've got the PID set up so that it turns the heater on and off, and it appears to work..... kinda. I now need to work out the settings to use.

The issue at the mo is that if I set the set temperature to 66*c, it will climb to 49*c and then turn the element off..... if it drops to 47*c it will go on again, and then turn off again at 49.
I assume this is something to do with me not changing the factory settings for I and D.
I've set the P setting to zero, which the manual says makes it work as an 'on/off' control.

I don't entirely understand what the Integral and Derivative (I & D) functions do, could someone explain? everything I see on the net is really complicated!


Cheers,
H

 

[jamesb]

OK so I got some REAL type k thermocouples, and they work a treat!

If the PID is set up for type J, the linearisation will be all wrong. I don't have the tables to hand though so it may be ok for you over the range you're using.