Belgian blond resembling a pea-souper

[Twopan]

I have successfully brewed several Brugse Zot clones. However, the last one never cleared in the bottle. Not just chill haze, a real murky look to it. Taste is not as good as my usual but not undrinkable- just lacks as much body. I did nothing different except...I think the protofloc I used was possibly too old. I have started a new batch with new protofloc which so far looks fine. Any thoughts?

 

[Sadfield]

What yeast?

Some level of beer spoiling contamination would result in off flavour, less body and haze.

Contamination affects the quality of the beer. Most contaminants will produce off-flavors, acids and non-desirable aromas. They can also produce hazy beers and films. They may compete with the production strain for essential nutrients; they can also induce stuck fermentation or over-attenuated beers. There are two major groups of microorganisms responsible for contaminating wort and beer: 1) Wild Yeast and 2) Bacteria.

https://www.probrewer.com/library/yeast/contamination/
Now that's contamination mentioned, that should elicit suggestions of everything else that it could be.

 

[Twopan]

Thanks. Thinking about it, this was the longest I left a brew in the FV as I was away. It was 16 days,whereas I usually bottle after 9 or 10. Could possibly have become contaminated in the latter stages.

 

[Twopan]

What yeast?

Some level of beer spoiling contamination would result in off flavour, less body and haze.


https://www.probrewer.com/library/yeast/contamination/
Now that's contamination mentioned, that should elicit suggestions of everything else that it could be.

And the yeast was MJ Belgian Ale yeast M41

 

[chthon]

And the yeast was MJ Belgian Ale yeast M41

Which is very nice one to get a clear beer. Think "Westmalle Tripel" clear :-p

However, it's a diastatic strain, so from the FG you can't deduce if it was contaminated. The last beer I brewed with it ended up at 1.000.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

What was your grain bill?

If the murky appearance has a dirty brown colour tone the beer may be oxidised.

 

[Sadfield]

An even more unlikely cause could be yeast autolysis. I doubt an extra 5 days in the FV would be an issue though.

https://www.micetgroup.com/beer-fla... acids also have a,the turbidity of the beer.
I presume that the MJ M41 is a fresh pitch of dry yeast? Not a repitch of slurry or pitching onto yeast from a previous brew.

 

[Twopan]

An even more unlikely cause could be yeast autolysis. I doubt an extra 5 days in the FV would be an issue though.

https://www.micetgroup.com/beer-fla... acids also have a,the turbidity of the beer.
I presume that the MJ M41 is a fresh pitch of dry yeast? Not a repitch of slurry or pitching onto yeast from a previous brew.

Yes - new yeast. Used soon after delivery and kept cold.

 

[Twopan]

What was your grain bill?

If the murky appearance has a dirty brown colour tone the beer may be oxidised.

 

[Twopan]

No, not murky brown. The colour is nice and pale, but just cloudy. I've attached a photo of an unchilled bottle. The grain bill is Bestmaltz pilsner 2.63kg, Bestmaltz pale ale malt 1kg, Simpson wheat malt 1kg, Crisp caramalt 400g. Saazer pellets 36g and Citra T90 20g.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

No, not murky brown. The colour is nice and pale, but just cloudy. I've attached a photo of an unchilled bottle. The grain bill is Bestmaltz pilsner 2.63kg, Bestmaltz pale ale malt 1kg, Simpson wheat malt 1kg, Crisp caramalt 400g. Saazer pellets 36g and Citra T90 20g.

Wheat malt can give the beer a bit of haze but the quantity isn’t so high it would be an obvious contender.

You said last time you brewed this recipe the beer was clear, is it the same batch of wheat malt as last time - could this batch be using unmalted wheat for example?

 

[Twopan]

Wheat malt can give the beer a bit of haze but the quantity isn’t so high it would be an obvious contender.

You said last time you brewed this recipe the beer was clear, is it the same batch of wheat malt as last time - could this batch be using unmalted wheat for example?

No to my knowledge the malt is exactly the same as I ordered from the Malt Miller last time, In fact, I have made this recipe four times; the first three were fine but the fourth did this. The grain bill was the same each time.

 

[Twopan]

I have read the article you sent. It could possibly be a touch of wild yeast. Annoying because I am scrupulous with cleaning and sterlising, ensuring everything that touches the beer has either been boiled or sterilised. I can't say though that the yeast over-attenuated - the OG was 1.054 and the FG was 1.005., giving an attenuation of 90.74% which is within the stated range for this yeast.

 

[Sadfield]

Was it as hazy before bottling?

Is there any sign of a film on top of the beer in an undisturbed bottle?

 

[Twopan]

Definitely no film on the top. It may well have been hazy when it went into the bottle. Brews are normally a little hazy when I bottle, but it always drops out after secondary fermentation - you can normally see it clearing from the neck downwards after two days and it clears completely after a week if not less. I have a batch of Leffe I made around the same time which is as clear as a bell. But in this case the bottles never started clearing downwards.

 

[chthon]

I suggest putting them somewhere in a cool place and have a look at them again after four weeks.

 

[Twopan]

Yes, we drank two last night. I would say they are very slightly clearer. Not quite the soup it started as! It's weird because it was bottled on 7th July.

 

[An Ankoù]

Which is very nice one to get a clear beer. Think "Westmalle Tripel" clear :-p

However, it's a diastatic strain, so from the FG you can't deduce if it was contaminated. The last beer I brewed with it ended up at 1.000.

That would explain a lot @Twopan . Back in February I made a blonde along the lines of Westvleteren 6 using Westvleteren yeast. I understand they get their yeast from Westmalle (and their bottles, I think) so there's a possibility that you were using the dried version of the same yeast. Anyway, I cultured the yeast and made a batch of blonde. There was a 36 hour lag time (so I didn't build enough yeast) and then everything went fine except that the beer wouldn't clear. Before realising this I had already cropped the yeast and started another beer- a tripel and this time the yeast took off like a house on fire. The second beer has cleared great and tastes fine, so we can discount infection. I bottled half the blonde in 33cl bottle and the other half in 500s. The 33s cleared first and the 500s have only just cleared. The beer is disappointing. Nothing exciting about it at all. I'll keep it over winter and if it doesn't improve, I'll chuck it. The Tripel, on the other hand is great, with all the esters you would expect.
What went wrong? Not sure. either I underpitched the first batch or fermented too cold, but something went irredeemably wrong. Anyway, there are a bunch of easier yeasts to use so I'll stick to those.

 

[Twopan]

That would explain a lot @Twopan . Back in February I made a blonde along the lines of Westvleteren 6 using Westvleteren yeast. I understand they get their yeast from Westmalle (and their bottles, I think) so there's a possibility that you were using the dried version of the same yeast. Anyway, I cultured the yeast and made a batch of blonde. There was a 36 hour lag time (so I didn't build enough yeast) and then everything went fine except that the beer wouldn't clear. Before realising this I had already cropped the yeast and started another beer- a tripel and this time the yeast took off like a house on fire. The second beer has cleared great and tastes fine, so we can discount infection. I bottled half the blonde in 33cl bottle and the other half in 500s. The 33s cleared first and the 500s have only just cleared. The beer is disappointing. Nothing exciting about it at all. I'll keep it over winter and if it doesn't improve, I'll chuck it. The Tripel, on the other hand is great, with all the esters you would expect.
What went wrong? Not sure. either I underpitched the first batch or fermented too cold, but something went irredeemably wrong. Anyway, there are a bunch of easier yeasts to use so I'll stick to those.

What dried yeast would you recommend as an easier yeast for a classic Belgian Blond flavour?

 

[Sadfield]

The second beer has cleared great and tastes fine, so we can discount infection.

Can you? All beer is contaminated, by definition sanitizing only reduces microorganisms to safe levels. Every fermentation is a competition, every beer contains unwanted microorganisms, and that's why some get pasteurised to extend shelf life.

Poor yeast preparation could initially let a contamination grow and deprive the pitched yeast of essential nutrients, which could have caused poor fermentation performance in the first beer. After your pitched yeast had eventually gone through its growth (fermentation), by the act of cropping, you could have selected much healthier yeast than you started with. Especially, if you top cropped.

One beer pitched with unhealthy yeast that won't flocculate, one with healthy yeast that will.

Beer is never infected, but always contaminated.