Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[strange-steve]

Still pretty much a brewing novice and haven't really got into the world of water treatment but I have a H.M.A filter which I use for treating water for my aquarium. Is there any reason why I shouldn't use this to treat my brewing water?

What's an HMA filter? Is it similar to an RO system?

 

[Lawrence22]

It's a heavy metal axe used in fish keeping. It removes Chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals but doesn't completely strip the water like RO.
https://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/10--HMA-Filters.html

 

[Lawrence22]

A HMA will not soften water like RO does, there is also no waste water.

 

[-Bezza-]

A HMA will not soften water like RO does, there is also no waste water.

Do you have the vital statistics for the water that comes out?

 

[Lawrence22]

Do you have the vital statistics for the water that comes out?

No I would have to go hunting old fish forum sites, haven't used mine in a few years as I no longer keep discus fish.

 

[Lawrence22]

Ok taken this from a fish forum. It won't alter the water chemistry other than removing Chlorine, chloramide and heavy metals.

You connect them to your mains water supply as you said or you can connect it to an outside tap which i do and use it when i need it.
All fish and not just Discus will like HMA water as a 3 stage filter will remove chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals from the tapwater.
Our tapwater varies throughout the country but HMA will give excellent water quality for the fish and for you to drink if you wanted to.
It won't alter the chemistry of the water and the one i use is good for 20,000 gallon before cartridge changes which could work out cheaper than using liquid dechlors(and you are not adding these liquids to your tank which is an added bonus )

 

[-Bezza-]

Not that I'm at the stage of understanding much about water quality and homebrewing yet, but since it will probably come at some point, I did a bit of digging around.

Google tells me that an HMA setup will cost £40 (£45 on Amazon). Replacement set of filters are then £15. That seems a reasonable price for 2,000 gallons / 9,000 litres. With Tesco Ashbeck being £1.10 for 5l, the equivalent cost of bottled water is £2,000. So quite a saving to be had if HMA filters are an appropriate way to get to a standard neutral water.

https://www.waterfilterman.co.uk/fi...uction-water-filter-system-dechlorinator.html

Includes

• 2x 10 meter lengths of tubing (20 meters in total)
• Three stage HMA water filtration system, complete with new filters inside
• 3/4" BSP to 1/4" Push fitting tap adapter - to connect onto your 3/4" BSP garden hosepipe outlet
• Housing spanner - to open the pods when filters need changing
• ** Optional upgrade, select from "fittings type" to add male hosepipe connectors to either side of the system, for easier garden use

Filter Specification
1st Filter - Sediment filter:
Removes rust, dirt, sand and sediment particles to 5 Micron in size
2nd Filter - Carbon GAC and KDF filter:
Removes high levels of Chlorine, Organic Compounds, Pesticides, Herbicides, and also reduces levels of heavy metals in the water with KDF filtration media and balances pH (increases pH of water, standard carbon filters and KDF will increase water pH, if you need a filter which is less likely to increase pH for discus fish or other fish sensitive to pH please choose the 'less pH altering CCBR2' option from the drop down list when ordering or consider our 3 stage reverse osmosis aqaurium water filter) -
Note: The CCBR2 filter may still increase pH of water (pH outcome will depend upon the contents of the incoming water) however this filter is regarded as one of the least likely filters to increase pH.
3rd Filter - Carbon Block:
Removes high levels of Chlorine, Organic Compounds, Pesticides, Herbicides, Trihalomethanes and Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)
* Carbon filter life approximately 2000 gallons (depending upon incoming water quality) / or Filters should be changed every 6 months max​

I then had a look at what a KDF filter is:

KDF® Process Media are high-purity, granulated copper and zinc-based alloys that treat water through a process based upon the principle of redox (Oxidation-Reduction). Originally, KDF was shorthand for Kinetic Degradation Fluxion. Basically, KDF creates zinc oxide in the cartridge which helps stop bacteria from growing--it actually killls bacteria--and allows the carbon to last longer.

GAC (granular activated carbon) will remove organic materials VOCs and radon gas by a process called adsorption. KDF removes metals including lead and hexavalent chromium 6, pesticides, Trihalomethanes THMs, MTBE, and neutralizes chlorine. KDF combined with coconut shell carbon (GAC or carbon block) extends the life by protecting against bacteria growth. Most systems use carbon to remove chlorine, but need replacing every 3 to 6 months--bacteria will grow in carbon. But, the copper zinc in KDF produces zinc oxide which inhibits bacteria growth extends the life to 3 years.
​

So Copper Zinc water filtration, which has its own Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_zinc_water_filtration

I then see you can get resin filters that supposedly remove even more particles (£16 from the same place as above). Wonder if that might get you one step closer to distilled water that you could treat as required.

Interesting but I have nowhere near enough knowledge to conclude on whether they would be suitable in homebrew applications.

 

[Lawrence22]

Not that I'm at the stage of understanding much about water quality and homebrewing yet, but since it will probably come at some point, I did a bit of digging around.

Google tells me that an HMA setup will cost £40 (£45 on Amazon). Replacement set of filters are then £15. That seems a reasonable price for 2,000 gallons / 9,000 litres. With Tesco Ashbeck being £1.10 for 5l, the equivalent cost of bottled water is £2,000. So quite a saving to be had if HMA filters are an appropriate way to get to a standard neutral water.

https://www.waterfilterman.co.uk/fi...uction-water-filter-system-dechlorinator.html

Includes

• 2x 10 meter lengths of tubing (20 meters in total)
• Three stage HMA water filtration system, complete with new filters inside
• 3/4" BSP to 1/4" Push fitting tap adapter - to connect onto your 3/4" BSP garden hosepipe outlet
• Housing spanner - to open the pods when filters need changing
• ** Optional upgrade, select from "fittings type" to add male hosepipe connectors to either side of the system, for easier garden use

Filter Specification
1st Filter - Sediment filter:
Removes rust, dirt, sand and sediment particles to 5 Micron in size
2nd Filter - Carbon GAC and KDF filter:
Removes high levels of Chlorine, Organic Compounds, Pesticides, Herbicides, and also reduces levels of heavy metals in the water with KDF filtration media and balances pH (increases pH of water, standard carbon filters and KDF will increase water pH, if you need a filter which is less likely to increase pH for discus fish or other fish sensitive to pH please choose the 'less pH altering CCBR2' option from the drop down list when ordering or consider our 3 stage reverse osmosis aqaurium water filter) -
Note: The CCBR2 filter may still increase pH of water (pH outcome will depend upon the contents of the incoming water) however this filter is regarded as one of the least likely filters to increase pH.
3rd Filter - Carbon Block:
Removes high levels of Chlorine, Organic Compounds, Pesticides, Herbicides, Trihalomethanes and Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)
* Carbon filter life approximately 2000 gallons (depending upon incoming water quality) / or Filters should be changed every 6 months max​

I then had a look at what a KDF filter is:

KDF® Process Media are high-purity, granulated copper and zinc-based alloys that treat water through a process based upon the principle of redox (Oxidation-Reduction). Originally, KDF was shorthand for Kinetic Degradation Fluxion. Basically, KDF creates zinc oxide in the cartridge which helps stop bacteria from growing--it actually killls bacteria--and allows the carbon to last longer.

GAC (granular activated carbon) will remove organic materials VOCs and radon gas by a process called adsorption. KDF removes metals including lead and hexavalent chromium 6, pesticides, Trihalomethanes THMs, MTBE, and neutralizes chlorine. KDF combined with coconut shell carbon (GAC or carbon block) extends the life by protecting against bacteria growth. Most systems use carbon to remove chlorine, but need replacing every 3 to 6 months--bacteria will grow in carbon. But, the copper zinc in KDF produces zinc oxide which inhibits bacteria growth extends the life to 3 years.
​

So Copper Zinc water filtration, which has its own Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_zinc_water_filtration

I then see you can get resin filters that supposedly remove even more particles (£16 from the same place as above). Wonder if that might get you one step closer to distilled water that you could treat as required.

Interesting but I have nowhere near enough knowledge to conclude on whether they would be suitable in homebrew applications.

I am going to dig mine out of the attic and use it for my water in next brew. I can't see any reason not to. It will take a bit of time to get the water I need, probably 30 mins. When I used to do kits I always used water from my fridges filter system, I'm guessing this should be similar.

 

[BeerCat]

No, generally in the US they prefer a less mineralised water profile, that sounds much more British. I normally aim for somewhere between 80 and 120 ppm calcium, whatever gives me the sulphate/chloride levels I want.

I have had really good results following your advice above. Many thanks.

 

[-Bezza-]

I am going to dig mine out of the attic and use it for my water in next brew. I can't see any reason not to. It will take a bit of time to get the water I need, probably 30 mins. When I used to do kits I always used water from my fridges filter system, I'm guessing this should be similar.

If you have some water testing stuff and can figure out what is coming out the other side, that would be interesting! :thumb:

 

[Lawrence22]

If you have some water testing stuff and can figure out what is coming out the other side, that would be interesting! :thumb:

I have some water tests from fish keeping but they may be out of date. I'll check.

 

[strange-steve]

Ok taken this from a fish forum. It won't alter the water chemistry other than removing Chlorine, chloramide and heavy metals.

Yeah I can't see there being any problem using that for removing chlorine/chloramine from brewing water, however that's only one part of brewing water treatment. The main purpose is to achieve the correct mash pH which will still require alkalinity adjustment, even if using the HMA filter.

Google tells me that an HMA setup will cost £40 (£45 on Amazon). Replacement set of filters are then £15. That seems a reasonable price for 2,000 gallons / 9,000 litres. With Tesco Ashbeck being £1.10 for 5l, the equivalent cost of bottled water is £2,000. So quite a saving to be had if HMA filters are an appropriate way to get to a standard neutral water.

The usual reason for people using bottled water is because their tap water is too high in alkalinity, rather than because of the chlorine. There are much easier and cheaper ways to remove chlorine/chloramine. For example, you can buy 100 campden tablets for £3 which will treat about 7000L of water.

 

[-Bezza-]

The usual reason for people using bottled water is because their tap water is too high in alkalinity, rather than because of the chlorine. There are much easier and cheaper ways to remove chlorine/chloramine. For example, you can buy 100 campden tablets for £3 which will treat about 7000L of water.

With my limited understanding, I was under the impression that alkalinity was a function of the various particles in the water and so was wondering whether the filters would remove those particles and therefore reduce the alkalinity. Think you're saying that filtration wouldn't address that so I'll get back in my box! :thumb:

 

[strange-steve]

With my limited understanding, I was under the impression that alkalinity was a function of the various particles in the water and so was wondering whether the filters would remove those particles and therefore reduce the alkalinity. Think you're saying that filtration wouldn't address that so I'll get back in my box! :thumb:

No, you're right however according to Lawrence an HMA filter (which I only just heard of yesterday) doesn't change the chemistry other than removing solids and chlorines. To remove everything from the water, including alkalinity, you need something like an RO system. Unless your water's really bad though, that's generally not required.

 

[Lawrence22]

I'm trying my first brew tomorrow where I have treated the water. My tap water Has alkalinity of 165 and calcium just under 50. My intention was to dechlorinate using the HMA and then adjust with CRS and gypsum. However local HBS had no CRS. So I have bought 36L of Tesco Ashbeck, treated with camped tablet as there is some chlorine in it and added 0.4 g/l of gypsum to the water. Its an IPA I am brewing so I hope I have got this right.

 

[strange-steve]

I'm trying my first brew tomorrow where I have treated the water. My tap water Has alkalinity of 165 and calcium just under 50. My intention was to dechlorinate using the HMA and then adjust with CRS and gypsum. However local HBS had no CRS. So I have bought 36L of Tesco Ashbeck, treated with camped tablet as there is some chlorine in it and added 0.4 g/l of gypsum to the water. Its an IPA I am brewing so I hope I have got this right.

Sorry I'm a bit late, hope your brew went well! Fwiw I think that sounds pretty good for an IPA
Oh and btw, I didn't know there was chlorine in Ashbeck, how did you find that out?

 

[Lawrence22]

Sorry I'm a bit late, hope your brew went well! Fwiw I think that sounds pretty good for an IPA
Oh and btw, I didn't know there was chlorine in Ashbeck, how did you find that out?

Just went back and checked the label. It's chloride not chlorine. Should have put my glasses on. :headbang:. Most importantly the brew went very well and I hit my O.G. target perfectly, I had undershot with my previous brew on the grainfather. Not sure if this is linked to the water.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
My online water report is a year out of date, but I suppose it's a guide - however, it doesn't specify the Chloride level in the water - am I missing something?

 

[strange-steve]

am I missing something

Yeah you're missing alkalinity which is the most important value to know for water treatment. Chloride is also missing but regarding the scope of this beginners guide, chloride isn't necessary.

 

[rich1985]

So I am looking to give this a go on my next brew. However I do not think I have all the relevant information on my water report. Could anyone help me by the link below a scan? On the opening page it does say Hardness The water supplied in the HOLLOWAY zone is HARD water. Calcium carbonate(CaCO3): 270 ppm. There is no mention of alkalinity in the report except to say No Limits. Finally, I always do MAXI BIAB using 5l of Ashbeck to top up. Do I need to treat that too? If so will I need to boil it to sterilise? Sorry, these are probably really stupid questions. Thanks in advance to anyone who can spare some time to help!

http://twmediadevcdn.azureedge.net/waterquality/WQ Report_Z0373_Holloway.pdf